Story by Emmjay
It’s not often that I can agree with Joe Hockey, assuming that he’s not misinformed, simply telling lies or shading the truth about bailing out SPC Ardmona.
But if what he said IS true, and that he is unwilling to spot the company a piddling $25M (supposed to be matched by the Victorian citizens who apparently get to kick in twice) AND that SPC Ardmona is owned by Coca Cola Amatil (he alleges made $150M profit for the half year), I reckon, like Joe’s generous body language suggested, the company can go and whistle for their lunch.
Good enough for the Abbott government to tell GMH to piss off ? Good enough to tell Coca Cola Amatil to do the same.
But typical of all Tory governments, in both cases, the Abbott government by ignoring the consequent impact on growers, rural communities and working families from the direct and flow-on effects of massive job losses, is simply and utterly contemptible. It is unacceptable.
Unacceptable to trash national industries without bothering to contemplate alternative business models.
Now I for one don’t put my money where my mouth is as far as buying locally built cars is concerned. I did once. It was a Ford Laser- which was really just a Mazda 323 assembled in Australia. In the last 15 years we have had only 2 cars – Subaru Forresters – something utterly reliable, useful and fun to drive – and recently an Alfa – which is beautiful and fun to drive too. Until GM started making similar models to the Forrester (but bigger, more expensive, less economical to run and less technically advanced) there was no locally made product we wanted to buy. Moreover, I was comfortable that other people bought the local monsters and kept the American and Japanese-owned industry afloat, albeit with sizeable taxpayer-funded subsidies.
But SPC Ardmona is different. This is an iconic Australian group, now owned by Coca Cola Amatil, those guardians of Australian health and well being (the group also includes IXL, Goulburn Valley and …. wait for it …… Weight Watchers and others). SPC Ardmona is a rurally – concentrated business.
I do purchase their products in preference to mainly cheaper home brand imports from all over the world. I admit this is not all altruism on my part. I strongly suspect that canned foods from wherever quite possibly have lax quality controls and are produced with little or no environmental protection laws – and the producers work doing extreme physical labour for slave wages. How else can the products be grown, processed, shipped, stored, wholesaled and retailed for less money than the same foods grown in Australia ?
I have seen documentaries showing indiscriminate use of pesticides in 3rd world countries -pesticides and the like that are now banned in the West. Worse than that, the documentaries show peasant farmers throwing the stuff around like confetti – no awareness of proper application rates and a huge risk to their personal well being and the future of their children. Pesticides manufactured by notoriously uncaring multinational corporations getting away with whatever they can. It doesn’t bear thinking about from where most of our coffee comes and how it is produced.
I generally trust Australian producers and regulatory authorities as much as one can trust anybody these days. I am glad that our producers do not work for slave wages and that farm production generates lots of flow-on employment. I am happy to pay a bit more for these products.
But I am not happy to see this Tory government hang the growers and workers of SPC Ardmona products out to dry. The government is right to tell Coca Cola Amatil to go and take a hike. Like GM, Ford and probably many others ripping off the Australian taxpayers, they have had their snouts in the corporate troughs for long enough.
And these monsters have no right to blackmail Australian governments of any persuasion by threatening job losses.
No more massive subsidies for foreign-owned companies. Especially to protect them from the free-trade flowing from agreements made by the self same governments.
What then can be done ?
Well, if $50M will keep the last significant Australian fruit cannery alive, let the local stakeholders have the SPC Ardmona business – make it a co-op (once again ?) call the bluff of Coca Cola Amatil. Increase the tax on Amatil and the other tobacco companies and provide a direct support line of credit until SPC Ardmona get clear of their difficulties.
Surely $50M is trivial money for a national government and for multinational companies – struth, it’s what Gina spends on morning tea.
And Joe spends entertaining Annabel Crabb.
Big M said:
Has Granny been screwing with our Pink Drinks, again?
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algernon1 said:
Why do you say that Big
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Big M said:
Some folk seemed to be yellin’, and carrying on in the Front Bar!
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sandshoe said:
Shakespeare’s Insult Generator
http://insult.dream40.org/?fb_action_ids=10202867000226608&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582
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Big M said:
Good one, ‘shoe!
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Carisbrooke said:
I don’t think that it’s the drinks, so much as the lack of medication.
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algernon1 said:
Like it a lot shoe
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sandshoe said:
Yes, I thought you would like it. Funny az that I found it posted to Facebook later,after I got through spitting my dummy at Carisbrooke.
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Sea Monster said:
I (or someone very close to me) tried to use a Shakespeare insult generator at The Drum exactly a year ago to point out the hypocrisy people routinely display (on all sides of an argument). They’ll complain that people are being nasty to them and then they’ll be nasty to people. A point I’m trying to make at the front bar here again today.
I think getting on and avoiding the worst harms of conflict needs each of us to acknowledge our own shortcomings. Admitting we can all be dickheads at times.
At The Drum I was trying comments like ‘I can’t believe X’s nasty comments get up; s/he is such an poisonous, earth-vexing, lewdster with more poison than all the worms of the Nile”. Mods didn’t like it. I try it on regularly. They don’t like it even when the topic is about blogging decorum.
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sandshoe said:
There he goes. Well, you should be sticking to your meds, Carisbrooke.
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sandshoe said:
Why o why did I put my head back in here and not recognise either that carisbrooke was already there and neither that it was beginning to swarm.
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sandshoe said:
yes, Sea Monster whomsoever you be, you are totally right
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Carisbrooke said:
Careful, SM, there is another puppy yapping at your heels now, if you mention The You know Whooooooooooooooooos.
You may need a deciphering manual though.
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vivienne29 said:
But SM ! I’m never a dickhead! Just mostly brilliant and insightful and honest and factual.
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atomou said:
IDENTITY THEFT ALARM!
It is I who is, “Just mostly brilliant and insightful and honest and factual.”
Particularly when I’m asleep!
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Voice said:
It isn’t clear that the outcome of the federal government refusing to kick in an additional 25 mill to CCA is that the cannery will shut down and growers will go under. The are many different possibilities.
The company made an ambit claim.
It got rejected.
15 all
Next point.
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vivienne29 said:
You are correct Voice. But looking at the various discussions on this it really is amazing how much concern some people have over assisting SPC with $25 million and no concern (from the right) about the BILLIONS of dollars thrown at Miners and at the Health Insurance businesses. I’d love a bit of consistency from Abbott & Co – the workers’ best friend last year, ha!
Also, businesses’ best friend, ha! It’s all bloody politics.
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Voice said:
Sticking doggedly to the SPC situation though, rather than the political points to be aimed at in its vicinity (carry on by all means though), I’d say there’s room for hope. I hope they make a go of it in some form or other.
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Voice said:
http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2012/10/30/spc-ardmona-cut-back-hits-aussie-farmers.html
Well, according to a comment here which I haven’t checked, in addition to farmers subsidies the EU also has an 18% tariff on imports. And CCA had already dismantled one plant and moved it to Spain. When SPC Ardmona was sold to a foreign conglomerate, its original purpose for existing, supporting local industry and people, was out the window.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bushtelegraph/spc-ardmona/5227278
“The director of Ausbuy, Lynne Wilkinson, says a major cause of SPC’s trouble is that Australia failed to negotiate favourable trade agreements with overseas markets such as Europe.”
We are losing the globalisation game. Globalisation is a wonderful piece of right wing theory with many benefits, but unfettered it is truly scary.
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vivienne29 said:
Good morning all and interesting to see that no-one addressed the actual subject and not much is understood as to the actual situation. So, the money the company needs is to go towards the efficient upgrading of cannery equipment. It has nothing to do with the product, the workers or the growers. This upgrading will be excellent but for reasons I don’t know, CCA want $50M worth of help and the Vic Lib Govt has promised $25M. The Abbott feds have said NO to putting in $25M. Depending on which way you look at it $25M is peanuts (50 houses) and frankly you’d think they could stump up all the dosh themselves, CCA that is. SPC products are the best and I only buy SPC/Ardmona and have only once bought another (tinned baked beans and spag) to compare, SPC comes out 10/10 and nothing else rates. Coles and Woolies have been bad people buying foreign tinned shit and putting it out under their own label, but guess what – the price is not cheaper than SPC but they must make more profit. It is all down to nasty greed. The cannery at Shepparton employes a lot of people and buys a lot of fruit and veg from local growers who have always supplied the cannery. I think it should have stayed a Co-Op but recall they had some money bother at the time and voted to take what seemed the easy way out – sold to CCA.
For what it is worth I think the government should handover $25M and save the day. It is, potentially, going to be a disaster to the local community and to Australia. If CCA get nasty and pull the plug it will cost more in Centrelink payments. There is also the matter of food security. People in that area are being screwed left right and centre (potato farmers being given the flick by McCains, they use them like prostitutes frankly).
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vivienne29 said:
Why did Abbott gift Cadbury in Tasmania $15M? When in Opposition (either last year or the year before) Abbott said the complete opposite of what he is now saying. He continues to lie.
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helvityni said:
…because it supposedly attracts tourists, and according to Abbott judgement chocolate is better for you than tinned fruit; as the Health minister he never worried about what unhealthy muck was advertised during the kids’ afternoon TV…
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vivienne29 said:
That’s what he says but I think it is bullshit. Shepparton cannery attracts tourists too you know. I’ve been there.
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helvityni said:
Keep the cannery, get rid of Abbott….there will be plenty more grieve coming from him….
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sandshoe said:
Really enjoyed you comment here Vivienne so I could follow the gist of what was intended and has happened. Your take on potato farmers being used like prostitutes rings a chord with my angst about the lack of support being provided the rural sector to maintain itself in diversity as opposed to this concentration of big business owning one way or another the rights to everything including of disposal (CCA case in point).
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vivienne29 said:
Yes, Shoe and thanks gain. There is more to this than most people realise. Over recent years there has been a lot of money spent by governments on improving the irrigation systems. Stopping water waste and worrying about the drought – it was the subject on everyone’s lips for quite some time. Well those irrigation systems provide water for the farmers who provide the fruit and veg to the cannery. If farmers wind up ripping out fruit trees and just grow fodder for cattle then that it really going to be a huge, really huge, waste. It’s plain crazy. The National MPs are useless – they should have put the ‘gun’ to Abbott’s head and called the shots. Vic’s Napthine is going to be doing a lot of hard thinking. Now they don’t have to help out Holden they do in fact have some spare dosh and they might consider investing in SPC and that whole community. We are a society, aren’t we?
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sandshoe said:
Vivienne, I read your comments through again. I’ve been giving my head a chance to unravel how i feel about this all and i feel devastated because the issues affecting the supply of food where I live must be horrendous that the quality of fresh food for one is soo bad. I’ve been feeling frightened it is deliberate manipulation of the market by the conglomerates to even in fact push tin food. It is a nightmare trying to work out fact and emotion.
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vivienne29 said:
For the best part of the last two years we saw Abbott on the tele in some factory, often with a hair net or yellow/orange vest on and mixing it with the workers, helping to make a pie or fillet a fish etc. He said that the workers had no better friend than the Liberals – time and time again he said and did this. Now WFT was that all about? Another lie.
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hph said:
What can you expect from a lowlife such as Abbott ? .. Nothing.
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vivienne29 said:
The time is ripe now for more people to call them out on this shit. This duplicity, this lying. Here you go Cadbury. Fuck you SPC. Even handed ! Abbott prefers chocolate to fruit and veg workers.
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vivienne29 said:
‘On Sydney commercial radio station 2GB on Wednesday, the Prime Minister suggested the ABC “instinctively takes everyone’s side but Australia’s” and he wanted to see “some basic affection for the home team”. Put your money where your mouth is Abbott or are you lying again?
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Therese Trouserzoff said:
Many thanks to you all for reading the piece and especially to Voice for a thoughtful incisive response adding important ideas like food security. I think Viv and Ato as well have the problem under control – in your backyard gardens !
Apologies for the scattiness – it was a rush job over lunch – dodging the full sun between coats on the courtyard wall.
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Big M said:
We is struggling with the home garden, here, in Newy. The occasional bum-nut from those lazy, post menopausal chooks, a coupla apples from five treas, few limes and a couple of herbs…doesn’t sound so good when you add it all up!!
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algernon1 said:
Mangoes a re booming here, starting to take them off the tree 6 weeks early. Perhaps I could ship them to Shepperton
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Therese Trouserzoff said:
I’m stumped for a recipe for them there ingredigents, Big. Viv ?
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Big M said:
Viv may have some ideas. Mr Ato would fry it all in olive oil!
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Voice said:
With smoked paprika and ouzo.
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Big M said:
Yes, and eggplant.
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Hung One On said:
Yeah but what about your dope plants, booming no doubt, smiley
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Big M said:
I wish we did, Mr Hung!
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Big M said:
VoR and I will come down and shove ’em in a tin for you. Cut out Amatil!
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Carisbrooke said:
Gold Star.
Comment of the week.
Bah, I hate that!
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Big M said:
I’ve never seen the Gentleman’s bar so excited over tinned fruit!
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Carisbrooke said:
BTW, I’m in Venice at the beginning of July .
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algernon1 said:
Could you image what it might do with, say sausages?
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Big M said:
I’ve got a new idea…Lima beans in tomato, or perhaps ham sauce…we could call them boiled beans, roasted beans, oh, I dunno!
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Big M said:
We are in Venice in April.
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algernon1 said:
We won’t be there this year.
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Carisbrooke said:
That’s interesting. Are you staying long? I’m only having two nights then getting the train to Rome.
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Big M said:
We have a month in Italy in March/April. Mrs M’s reward for surviving spinal cancer!
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Voice said:
Oooh, March and April. A fine time to be in Italy. That should fatten her up again (in a good way).
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Carisbrooke said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2548249/Anna-Elisabet-Eberstein-mother-Hugh-Grants-second-born-takes-baby-stroll.html
Here’s what you can do if’n you speak English Algy.
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Voice said:
I think Carisbrooke’s trying to get in on the deal. Should we let him put up the collateral for the business loan?
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Carisbrooke said:
They’ve got a fast train. I wish that we had them here -as I said to Viv, in The Dump. They are going 500k ph now, or trying to. just imagine, Brissie to Steak and Kidney; 2 and a bit hours.
Wouldn’t it be great?
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Big M said:
It will only cost him 25 million.
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algernon1 said:
What things with sausages and Hugh Grant?
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Voice said:
Why Venice and Rome? You must have been to both before, Rome more than once?
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Carisbrooke said:
I’m only interested in robots 😉
Got any? Preferably English speaking, with no appetite.
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algernon1 said:
What only $25m!
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Carisbrooke said:
Good question Voix.
Well as you know I have a mind for facts and trivia. I was checking up on Michael Angelo, and discovered that he was secretly a Lutheron ( or tending toward a more honest appraisal of deeds*), so I want to see some of his work where he built in little foibles t o rebel against the Catholic Church. Staying just near Central Station and then flying back to Brissie.
* I may have to explain this to you in a mail or an article here – as long as no one mentions Abooot.
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Carisbrooke said:
C’mon guys, let me in on the deal.
You need me, I’m the only sane person in here.
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Voice said:
And you still want in?
Suddenly I am fading. Must tidy up generally before falling to sleep.
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Big M said:
Plus 25 mill from the state gummint!
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Big M said:
Actually the whole Michelangelo thing sounds interesting. I’ve stayed out of the arrangements, letting Mrs M organise whatever she wants. Will have a rapid read up on things just prior to take off.
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Voice said:
Is it all booked? A couple of thoughts. Pompeii. Because you just have to. Paestum (Is atomou looking?) Because you can see a fantastic Greek temple without bothering with going to Greece. I’d better speak fast now. Oh, whatever. How can you go wrong?
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Carisbrooke said:
Yeah, just google it. I’m sure that you will find some references. He purposely changed that way that the eyes looked and tilted heads, in defiance of the church.
The wealthy church leaders thought that they could be glorified by doing deeds and buying things. he stared to see things differently. in fact they cut off his wages I seem to remember. Then got him back because he was the best.
It’s fascinating
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Carisbrooke said:
Actually, I’ve just remembered, he left the clergy out of paintings and put in angels and bodies n stuff. the clergy wanted to be glorified in the paintings, for posterity.
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algernon1 said:
Oh I thought the high speed train
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Carisbrooke said:
Algernon, would probably enjoy The Appian Way.
He like roads 😉
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Carisbrooke said:
From Venice to Rome there is a fast train and faster one. The fastest is about 3.5 hours. I could be wrong about the exact time. I haven’t looked it up since November, when I booked the flights.
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algernon1 said:
Like William you mean
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Carisbrooke said:
off to blog elsewhere. It’s only 10pm in Qld.
Apresto cheerio 🙂
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Carisbrooke said:
Yup, that’s what I meant..Like William you mean.
A public Road. Its where they crucified people.
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Big M said:
Yes, accommodation and trains (even some very, or extremely fast ones) booked and paid. Pompey, no. We’ll see.She’s already talking about 2015. I’ll be working ’til I’m f&^%in’ 80 to pay for all of this!
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algernon1 said:
But they are private roads.
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Voice said:
Well, cycling the Appian Way is a brilliant outing. It should be lovely in spring.
Traveling doesn’t HAVE to be horrendously expensive, it’s just for some reason people tend to combine it with expensive accommodation (like staying near Central Station) and restaurants.
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Voice said:
But still, sometimes it less about the traveling and more about rest, recuperation, and spoiling yourself rotten with fascinating things to visit and experience.
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Carisbrooke said:
I think that all of this talk about a The Appian Way, has bought a sort of crucifixion, mentality out in some.
Off driving..
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Big M said:
Mrs M will never cycle again, not with lumps of titanium in her back, so, as you say, VoR, will just have to be spoiled!
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Voice said:
Yes, I had been going to add “all things being equal” to the Appian Way trip, with that in mind. Walk some of it if you can squeeze it in between eating fabulous food and sleeping in silken sheets. But … people can be such bores with recommendations. Whatever you do in Italy will be fantastic – how can you miss. (I would have said the same thing about France, but someone I know recently went to BREST of all places. In mid-Winter. In red-alert storm weather. Still, that will probably end up being their most popular dinner story back home.)
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Carisbrooke said:
BTW, year of the horse………………………………
Chinese New Year public holidays – 31 January to 6 February 2014
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Carisbrooke said:
The Yin and the Yang is that wages are high in Australia, when you have a job. The jobs will decline of course, and more workers ( except public servants) are on part time (short weeks).
You just have to say, “it was good while it lasted”.
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gerard oosterman said:
I am amazed that teaching foreign languages has not taken on in Australia. I am happy to see that at least in shops and businesses there are now a few brave and enterprising souls advertising their wares in a foreign language. My soul leaps with joy seeing that, even though I don’t understand the Korean, Thai or Chinese words that are depicted on the signage.
How do we come across our trading partners not having the skill and courtesy to at least have some knowledge of their language and culture? If we did, it would be a huge advantage.
It is of a huge benefit to have at least another language taught in learning the home language. I wonder if ABC television could be enticed to have the news broadcast in spoken English with varying languages alternatively subtitled on the screen? It is done in other countries.
I think that enticing students to live overseas would be a cost effective way of Australia at least fostering young people to learn Chinese, Indonesian or other languages. It would even in the short run bring returns far exceeding the initial expenditure.
.
Of course we need leaders in government that have foresight and vision. I don’t see much of that at present but one lives in hope and relishing in mediocrity just can’t go on forever. It is just not on.
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Carisbrooke said:
The International languages of business are English and French. All Asian CEOs speak it. Without exception.
They have to otherwise they would never get anything done.
Law is in English and codes and regulations are in English, as is scientific studies on global warming and ecology.
If you spoke Chinese or Indonesian, you would have anybody to talk to. excepting your mates back home of course.
Any Australian student can live in The UK, and visa versa, under a reciprocal arrangement.
The children of India and China all learn English.
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gerard oosterman said:
Carisbrooke;
Perhaps you did not read the link to the Menadue article; Let me help you with just a few facts;
http://www.johnmenadue.com/biography/
“◾I have yet to learn of a single chairperson or CEO of any of our major companies who can fluently speak any of the key Asian languages.
◾A recent survey by the Business Alliance for Asian Literacy, which represents 400,000 businesses in Australia, found that ‘More than half of Australian businesses operating in Asia had little board and senior management experience of Asia and/or Asian skills or languages’.”
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Carisbrooke said:
Yes, iIread that.
Then I contradicted it. Remember.
That’s his opinion, not mine.
The lingua Franca of the world is English. That is indisputable and irrefutable.
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algernon1 said:
Interesting though that the most spoken in the world is Mandarin, nearly 2.5 times more speakers than English.
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Carisbrooke said:
The most spoken language may well be Mandarin, however it isn’t the lingua franca.
It’s patently absurd to put that statistic out of context.
Does anyone recommend learning Spanish, because it’s the 3rd most spoken? or Indonesian because of their huge population, meaning that they are probably up there in the top five or six?
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Carisbrooke said:
The official language of Hong Kong, is…guess what?
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algernon1 said:
I was just saying Jules and yes Spanish is the third most spoken, not that much less than English I might add. But Your point is correct English tends to be the language of buisness.
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Carisbrooke said:
Good, I’m glad your back of your high horse.
Best to leave my battles to me, Algy.
I know that you mean well, however there are things that you don’t know.
As Donald Rumsfeld said!
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algernon1 said:
What ever you say there, Sergeant Schultz.
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gerard oosterman said:
If this company is to survive they need to produce the best product at a competitive price. I don’t know if our fruit and vegie efforts can really survive overseas producers and expertise. The climate and soil are difficult to control, pests, birds…we know all about it, trying to get a crop of tomatoes or apples was almost impossible. We are the best in the world at medical innovation and wine making. Holland is slowly getting to be the major exporters of dairy products, flowers, potato, chili, fish and cucumbers. It’s not just the soil. It’s the science and their emphasis on educating at their agricultural colleges.
Germany is competing in technology and superb and efficient management. Again, it is education that is the driving force.
I think we ought to concentrate and educate the young and make experts on what we are best at. A big problem is the exodus of those experts to greener pastures.
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helvityni said:
Yes but, no but, you speak of educating our young…but as I see it Abbott is not really fussed about our education standards…if he were, we would know about by now….
If/when we start believing that every child, rich or poor deserves good free education, we are moving towards wanting to be be a clever country, a progressive country…
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Carisbrooke said:
This is a discussion about food production. Education doesn’t can tomatoes at the right price.
You’re in the wrong blog.
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Big M said:
We are all the Goddess’ children.
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Carisbrooke said:
Barry White?
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Hung One On said:
Gordon O’Donnell actually
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sandshoe said:
Carisbrooke, I don’t know what comes over you. Your irrelevance on so many occasions is politely allowed to drift on (as that is the nature of conversation in the human group) for years through these threads. I was myself entirely absorbed in the conversation here between helvi and Gez regardless immediately after reading Emmjay’s essay.
My mind is flexible enough to extend to half a dozen reasonable subjects discussed civilly (ie best without having to read anybody calling anybody a bitch) …that have either direct, tangential or no apparent immediate relationship to a leader article. Your comment is just an irritant of an interruption. I feel unavoidably suspicious all over again about what your go is. Pity you don’t comes zooming back to mind when I stumble into your paucity of consistent contribution. What’s the cost of your detracting? Your drawing attention to yourself that you are an irritant on the windscreen without consideration that the most fabulous thing is happening here and that is a conversation between a husband and wife, between two lovers who have known each other all these fabulous years and turn up together here at this pub. I for one am interested in what they have to say to each other about if they drift into discussing at their special table. I read what they have to say and as they have been round a few blocks tuck it into the back of my mind developing a picture. You put your head in. That’s your contribution to the time I just put in reading what that conversation is? Get… Guess the word.
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Carisbrooke said:
I’m sick of political comments mentioning Abbott. After six years one gets fed up of the same receptive nonsense.
Now, since you are making the running here lt’s have a look for this wonderful love, not that I don’t think they’re in love, however you bought it up:
Here:Yes but, no but, you speak of educating our young…but as I see it Abbott is not really fussed about our education standards…if he were, we would know about by now….
If/when we start believing that every child, rich or poor deserves good free education, we are moving towards wanting to be be a clever country, a progressive country…
If this is a lover’s note then I am the man in the moon.
It was off topic.
As your comment is.
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Carisbrooke said:
Repetitive, I meant to write.
If you want to have lovers chats, you normally don’t do it on a web where there are 60 billion comments going on.
I think that someone put you up to this. Sorry but it seems a bit strange to me. I apologise if I’m wrong, but this seems weird and out of place in a blog about tomatoes.
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sandshoe said:
Aha! Someone put me up to this? You are so not paying attention to who I am consistently, Carisbrooke.
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gerard oosterman said:
Trying to engage with Carisbooke is useless Shoe. Leave him alone and he’ll be gone. If we want a clever country we need to learn to deal with other cultures, other languages, other ways of doing things better. Good for you and thank you for standing up to his derisive unhappy nonsense.
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Big M said:
‘… the most fabulous thing is happening here and that is a conversation between a husband and wife, between two lovers who have known each other all these fabulous years and turn up together here at this pub. I for one am interested in what they have to say to each other about if they drift into discussing at their special table.’ What a lovely way of looking at this quaint little place. Pink Drinks all round!!
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helvityni said:
Carisbrooke, well trained , well educated run their businesses better, smarter, they are quicker to improve, to go with the times, they find out how things are done in other places…canning tomatoes can be done in many ways, like anything else…education helps you in all areas of life…
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Carisbrooke said:
Your point was never, ever about education.
It was a silly comment that our “Prime Minister is not fussed about our education standards”.
It was just frippery. Just a nonsense.
Like the big smiley the you put up (after lauding your friend) when I complained about your friend insulting my family.
You said how marvellous he was. it was unbelievable actually.
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Carisbrooke said:
Where were you today Shoe. I swapped a thouand words with the bitch (my pet name for Viv).
Be honest, you got a mail from Gerard to ask you to come down and back them up.
You haven’t been here all day.
You did it once before to Sea Mendez and once to Voice.
Most peculiar.
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algernon1 said:
The language is a bit strong and unnecessary, Jules. We don’t call anyone “bitches” here.
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Carisbrooke said:
No nooo, Algy it was a silly aside to Viv, one day, she understood it perfectly.
It was nothing to do with anyone else.
Nothing.
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algernon1 said:
In a public area, interesting.
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Carisbrooke said:
Bitch 😉
It’s a great word. A literary triumph….And in many many many songs, including titles. Including ‘The Bard’. Yes He himself wrote it. Did you know thatit is published in zillions and zillions, and zillions of languages.
What a mine of trivia I am.
……………………………
BTW, Gerad, the word is divisive. You should know.
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Big M said:
Oh good, the Bard used the word ‘bitch’. Thank the Goddess he didn’t use my special carpentry words, other wise the world would be in a verbal muckin’ fuddle!
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algernon1 said:
Perhaps its a word used colloquially in certain parts Big.
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Carisbrooke said:
When I was erescting my shalves today, a neighbour popped in, and I siad, “when I nod my head you hit it”
Boom Boom.
That’s why gerad is correct when he say that is useless trying to engage me. He hit my head so hard that I now have an Irish accent…Boom boom.
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sandshoe said:
Carisbrooke, if you imagine that I have a telephone line or underground tunnel or something linked up between my place and Gez and Helvi’s well and good. I recently learned about this online phenomenon of people believing other people are engaged in conspiracy against them and that is a major downside for online media. Fortunate am I that’s not a train of thought that occupies me.
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Carisbrooke said:
Whether intentionally or obliviously, whatever you think that you are doing, you’re not doing, let me tell you.
You are butting into a conversation that has nothing to do with you. here’s the whole nub.
“Trying to engage with Carisbooke is useless Shoe”…Gerard.
If the conversations don’t go his way, he stamps his feet and complains.
You are being manipulated and groomed It’s sad that you can’t seem to find your own way. Pleas stick to your own subjects instead of ‘appearing’ to be cultivated.
I can’t recall saying anything derogatory to you, or even about you.
You butted in when I criticised Helvi for a comment that she has made about 700 times. Isn’t that ‘my’ business.
We all had fun and you didn’t join in. You are forgiven though – and please please don’t write another long soliloquy, about how marvellous is in Finland and how wonderful it must be to come from there. Maybe it is; just send Helvi a box of chocolates and some flowers and send ‘them’ a personal email, to show how much you care.
You haven’ addressed this topic, or engage with anyone else in here (this article). Don’t you think that looks strange, Shoe? Most peculiar, I think.
Anyway, I’m off to Caboolture and don’t need to be told what to write by you or anyone else..Unless, I am extremely insulting – as hph (Hung) was. He was of course backed up by Helvi. You didn’t spring to my defence then???
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gerard oosterman said:
No ,I stick to derisive.
(expressing contempt or ridicule.)
“he gave a harsh, derisive laugh”
synonyms: mocking, ridiculing, jeering, scoffing, jibing, pillorying, teasing, derisory, snide;
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sandshoe said:
Carisbrooke, you have a shocking habit of gathering illusion around yourself that you are speaking on behalf of a mob of people (cf to ‘we all had fun and you-meaning I-didn’t join in). Nastiness never makes anybody look pretty as an individual however you dress up your belittling and denigrating. In regard to ‘sticking up for you or speaking up for you and i didn’t do that or whatever’, I was speaking for myself primarily Carisbrooke and wasn’t seeking to represent anybody else. Time for you to slip in a link to an article about Hugh Grant perhaps here, you are a master of interruptive devices and so patently mischief making.
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algernon1 said:
Shoe more to the point, he Googles and finds himself a pre eminent expert
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sandshoe said:
Algy, I take your point but Hugh Grant, as an example case in point? That the Arms has links now to interposed drivel about Grant having babies to more than one woman and how intrusive and cruel the usury of Grant? Interruption. Carisbrooke is going somewhere or other soon? Interruption cutting across lead subject matter? Pegging away at the conversations at the pub in disguise as the enlightened and well-to-do self made business man with only a good time as his affable guide? Now who would have the time to devote themselves to the game or want to? Implies he has knowledge that others don’t have without naming it? Nudge nudge wink wink?
I have been in places where domination of the sort of decent people’s comments would be tolerated for five minutes and to think anybody would allow it. So like being in the 70s and observing people being inappropriately targeted.
I read everything. I generally read it twice over two days whether I comment or not so I understand the conversations. Today I discussed with a friend my concerns about the Arms. Personally, it drains of me over and above a good time that alternatively I have on sites that have ground rules. My situation demands of me that I look towards solving some time schedule problems and locational problems. Having gotten attached to the idea of the pub I find it very hard to stay away as I am isolated here, I can’t see any solution, however.
Therefore I will invite anybody who wants to maintain a network relationship with me to seek that through email through emmjay initially if you don’t have email address for the time being … and I think few have my contact details except emmjay and maybe I have been in contact with a couple of others perhaps once in all these years. I have to make choices and the time I spend reading all the interruptive frippery introduced by Carisbrooke and targeted unpleasantness such as was demonstrated here has to go. Piglets who keep up such a fabulous engagement of chatter with it are blessed that they are able to entertain it for whatever reason.
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Voice said:
(I mentally deleted the stuff about the evilness of Torys and Abbot and I’m talking about what remains.)
You’re saying the government shouldn’t let large local businesses go under because too many people rely on them. But obviously in the general case it’s unsustainable for a government to spend its money paying companies to employ people. It has to be a company with good medium to long term prospects of being able to stand on its own feet.
Other issues you touch on here are food security (safety of the imported food) and fairness for workers. You’re effectively saying no to unfettered globablisation, which is the way the world is moving/has moved. Globablisation actually makes a lot of sense in theory, and some sense in practice, but globalisation as it is practised now is scary. It undermines hard fought and long established workplace safety, wages, fairness as companies relocate production to areas where those things aren’t protected. It’s going in the direction that governments all over the world will compete with each other for the privilege of having massive global corporations dole out a few jobs to their country.
Back to Ardmona canned tomatoes. I read a Sydney Morning Herald article about Ardmona tomatoes a while ago and it’s still there. (I remembered this as I really liked the product but it just became too expensive.)
http://www.smh.com.au/national/canned-why-local-tomatoes-cop-a-pasting-20120526-1zc2q.html
Basically Italy, which dominates the world market, is very good and reliable at growing and canning a quality tomato product. They have a good climate and land for this. This is the positive aspect of globalisation – focus on what you’re good at. If we can’t match it, we arguably should redirect our efforts somewhere else. But we have the advantage of not paying shipping costs, and our product is also good. So what’s the problem?
Well there are temporary problems that argue in favour of a subsidy to tide the company over because of temporary setbacks. The high AUD means the cost of the Italian product has gone down and at the same time drought conditions here made the cost of the Australian product go up. On the other had climactic conditions here will never be reliable.
On the other other hand, food security considerations arguably make a special case of it. Here to issues around the implementation of globalisation – the Italian tomato industry is subsidised by the EU. EU farmer subsidies have been a bone of contention for many decades – butter mountains, milk lakes, etc. etc. and so have US farmer subsidies. Some of this revolves around food security.
Here to the ugly side of globalisation – Italy screws its illegal immigrants to get cheap labour. Also, does Coca-Cola Amatil own tomato businesses in other countries? Perhaps they bought SPC Ardmona to kill competition? Drive down global wages?
So issues are globalisation good and bad, sale of Australian owned businesses to foreign conglomerates, food security, supporting industry through a high-value currency phase so it can support us when that phase ends.
But Ardmona has been hit by a perfect storm.
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atomou said:
A well considered essay, Voice that looked at most issues pertaining to the SPC and major corps. Though I am disappointed that you so easily dismissed the fact that Torries and Tonies are egrigiously evil! They ARE, indubitably. Zeus told me!
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Voice said:
That boring, eh? 🙂
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atomou said:
Yes, NO! I mean, NOOOOOOO! I was standing on my toes with excitement as I was reading it! REALLY!
41: FX Sound of Ato exhaling with relief and falling hard onto his couch.
25: ATO (SIGHING) Bloody hell that was close!
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Voice said:
Ooh, ooh, I just had a rosy picture idea. What if SPC Armona go bankrupt and their business is sold for a pittance? The new owners keep on all the staff, are able to sell more cheaply because they are no longer burdened by debts from the drought, the dollar is dropping, Coca-Cola Amatil is such a huge company that the percentage drop in their share price doesn’t really hurt anyone ….
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Big M said:
How about we buy it, Voice, a programmer and a nurse practitioner who know farcall about fruit ‘n’ tins???
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Voice said:
I might know farcall about fruit ‘n’ tins but I know what I like!
I used to buy their tinned tomatoes with added tomato paste and herbs. Great occasional pantry stand-by for when I was too beat to shop or cook – just boil some pasta and heat up this.
Of course, as owners we wouldn’t need to actually know anything at all. That’s what management are for. We just spend the profits.
(See – I know all about this business stuff. We’ll make a killing.)
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Big M said:
Our first job will be to go on a fact finding mission to Venice, Rome, Lake Como, etc, tax deductible, all expenses paid by the outgoing (or outgrowing) Armonians!
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Voice said:
I like your thinking Big. We’ll sack middle management first so we can afford to pay for it. We can probably fund it out of forward borrowing for the fiscal quartering (boy, do I know this stuff or do I know this stuff) but … I’ve always wanted to sack middle management.
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Carisbrooke said:
Excellently written Voix, unfortunately falling on barren ground.
Although, being fair, like Stephen Fry, I’ll give you deaux pwant for mentioning Aboooot.
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Big M said:
How can (excuse the unintended pun) the Italians sell canned tomatoes, of every permutation, and paste, cheaper than we can grow the buggers here?
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Voice said:
Read the article I linked to. But basically – they’ve been doing it for a long time and are damn good at it, they have great climate and growing conditions and a huge growing area that enables them to be reliable, they rip off their immigrants by employing them illegally for a pittance, and on top of all that they are subsidised by the EU.
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Big M said:
I’m putting together a business model. Illegal aliens (or asylum seekers), an EU, and lot’s of money…good.
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Sea Monster said:
I like the idea that if a business receives government assistance its employees are defacto public servant and has to pay its employees on government pay scales. Including management. I’d start with bank execs who take advantage of government guarantees.
I said it over at The Drum. Above award conditions are the goal. But shit-kickers (and I use the term with empathy – I used to be one- not derision) like motel cleaners and shop assistants should not pay taxes to prop up above award conditions.
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Carisbrooke said:
I made up my mind one year ago. We use robots to carry out agribusiness.
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Voice said:
Provided they manufacture water and soil and control the weather, this will solve all our problems.
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Carisbrooke said:
Actually, If I was younger, I would progress this idea a bit more. it’s definitely the future. And Australia is begging for it.
Spy in the sky
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atomou said:
“If I WERE younger,” Cazo! “WERE” Subjunctive Mood.
And it’s Pys in the Kys (vowel always in the middle of consonants!
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Carisbrooke said:
Yes, it should be pie in the sky. Did you like my little “robotic” twist?
I realised about the were, after hitting the button.BTW, does this mean that we are writing as lovers 😉
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atomou said:
I’ll have you know, I’m nobody’s lover but my own, thank you very much!
Yes, loved that show. Every dish they cooked was such crap that one was tempted to say that they were so, on purpose! They certainly didn’t bother with any culinunnery consultants in that show.
Dull as last Sundee’s chips, yet, paradoxically I couldn’t wait for the next episode.
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Carisbrooke said:
He died this year, ato.
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atomou said:
Goodness. He wasn’t that old, was he? But he WAS unhealthily obese.
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Carisbrooke said:
I only know, because he was on a huge screen at the back of a Hollywood awards night thingee. it had O’Toole of course and all of the others that had fallen off the perch.
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Voice said:
Why stop there? I’ve got an even better idea. We use robots to do everything. Then we don’t NEED agribusiness.
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atomou said:
I can think of one thing, no two things that robots can’t do!
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Carisbrooke said:
Well they can even sit in Parliament, ato.
There’s Wong and ect, Uncle Tom Cobly, Highcockalorum and ad infintum.
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Big M said:
Who is ‘ect’?
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atomou said:
ect are coalled the donkeys at the head of the herd of donkeys on the right side of the chair, in both houses.
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Big M said:
And here’s me, thinking it was electroconvulsive therapy!
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atomou said:
It DOES mean that, Big one. That’s why those donkeys are given that title: Abbott, ect. Pyne. ect, Bishop, ect… etc, etc, etc, all the way down the wire.
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Carisbrooke said:
I had left it for you to put in a couple of Tories, big.
I have to be fair.
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Big M said:
Donkeys, Mr Atomou, asses…asinine f&^%ing asses, on both sides!!
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Carisbrooke said:
I want some of Gina’s tea.
Shit I’ll settle for a tea leaf if that what she pays……………………….Must be this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Hong_Pao
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Voice said:
I don’t think SPC Ardmona has a hope in hell. This expert (not) opinion is based on their tinned tomatoes. A few years ago I bought them – now I don’t.
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gerard oosterman said:
It reminds me a bit of the ‘butter mountain’ that Holland created years ago. They cornered the butter world but in doing so had created a surplus of butter that no one could buy anymore. The solution? Selling it at a reduced price to the world and get the locals to subsidise it, pay top price.
The result? The canny Dutch drove to Russia, filled their boots with butter and drove back and were still in front, some even selling it straight from the boot at reduced prices.
I think the answer is to refuse the inferior cheaper products and buy quality. A bit like our Holden Cruze (made in Korea) getting morphed into a Peugeot.
However, the other side of the coin is that ‘buying better quality’ also works when overseas countries are enticed to buy our exported products. They have to stack up in quality and be competitive. That’s why buying Australian made products only, ought to be considered if all countries applied that same principle. Who would you expect to buy our products then?
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atomou said:
Problem is, though, our agri land is also held very tenuously and it’ll take nothing for the same thugs to simply shift their money for a day or two, buy out the land, fill it full of holes and lethal fracking chemicals and we’re back where we’ve started from. “Free Market Capitalism” has lots of hairs on it!
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Carisbrooke said:
They have problems with fracking in The UK now.
The whole world will be well and truly fracked.
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Big M said:
Here in the Hunter, we just dig up coal, and spray the dust all over adjacent vineyards, and livestock!
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atomou said:
Zeus bless ya, Ms!
All righteous sentiments and ones I can wholeheartedly revere.
Big thieving corps are now (as always) blackmailing govnt’s by getting into a country, employing thousands at shit wages and then putting the hard word on to them, a word that’s identical to a mafia offer, one they can’t refuse: Gime money or I’m pissing off and all those thousands of workers will be starving or draining your coffers with… welfare!
The solution, is of course as you suggest: Tell them to fuck off and give what’s necessary to a sensible co-op whose interest is the running of that company for the good of this country and its workers. Let the trough lickers bugger off out of here.
And, like you, I agree with neo-con gluttons very tentatively and with great trepidation. In fact, I have to smack my head hard a few times to see if I can’t shake such a sentiment out of it!
Good stuff!
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Big M said:
Good one, Emmjay, yes, I agree, Ford and Holden can fuck themselves, for all I care. They made reasonable cars, way back in the 60s, albeit copies of American stuff, but, now, just puppet cars, propped up by real Australian dollars.
I think that agriculture, to a large extent is different from cars, range hoods, steel and coal. We still have relatives on the land, so to speak. A cousin still grows fruit in Bathurst because, ‘ I fuckin’ love doin’ this, just like you fuckin’ love lookin’ after them babies.’ Not much of a reason, I admit, but I do think we should be able to stand on our two feet, and at least, feed ourselves!
Where’s the donation box, Mr Merv?
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