Here’s my answer to Vectis Lad’s question about what I think about Breivik; whether he’s mad or evil:
The answer is no, I don’t really think he’s either. You see, neither of these ‘explanations’ actually explains anything about his actions… why he did what he did… rather, they ‘explain it away’; they give a ‘plausible’ explanation, which satisfies people’s prejudices (prejudices born in their own epistemologies) but which really tells us nothing at all about the nature and causes of this rampage. They leave us thinking we have an explanation, but in fact all we have is confirmation of our own prejudices… which also need to be examined for the role they play in the social construction of the ‘psychopathic mass-murderer’.
Moreover, this phenomenon is a social phenomenon; a social problem; and as Emile Durkheim said, “Social problems have social causes”; the psychological ‘explanation’ (ie. ‘he’s mad’) seeks to locate the causes of the problem all within the psyche of the individual and ignores the social nature of the construction of this monster. But the fact is ‘we’ (ie. our societies) CREATE these monsters… So we need to look at how we do this if we want to avoid creating more of ’em in future. And that means we need to look very closely at what it is he thought he was doing… and ask what is it about our societies which generates such a worldview. As I’ve already indicated on the Drum, the answer lies in his deepest beliefs… his ‘christianity’ and his self-concept as some kind of ‘knight templar’.
In my book ‘Aesthetics of Violence’ I show that human sacrifices and/or scapegoat rituals are in fact paradigmatic of violence, yet christianity itself revolves around the central human-sacrifice/scapegoat-ritual of Jesus… Is it so far-fetched to suggest that there’s a connection between this belief in salvation through human sacrifice and the slaughter Oslo witnessed?
Now, when I said I didn’t think he was ‘evil’, don’t get me wrong… He’s evil alright, but not in the sense that christians mean when they use that term… For christians evil is an absolute, which is personified in their ‘devil’… their ‘anti-god’; and this devil supposedly corrupts the minds/spirits of people, supposedly seducing them away from ‘god’ and turning them into ‘evil’ creatures… But once again, you notice how this lets society off the hook? How it may satisfy a christian concept of an ‘evil’ man and seems to explain it, yet in fact once again it explains nothing?
You see, the truth is that good and evil are NOT absolutes; they are relative concepts: Thus certainly this man and his actions were evil to his victims and their families and to anyone else who was moved to outrage at his actions (myself included!) But in Breivik’s own mind he was apparently doing something he thought was ‘nessessary’… In his own mind he was fighting the good fight… (It’s interesting that in this little scenario we can also see the impossibility of separating ‘good’ from ‘evil’; in Taoist terms these exist as complementary opposites which actually depend on each other for their existence).
So, if we really want to find the true (social) causes of this behaviour we need to look very closely at Breivik’s worldview; and if we want to avoid further future horrors, we need to deconstruct that worldview… This is not an easy task, because what it means is that we must deconstruct the whole militaristic mentality, with its Social Darwinist emphasis on ‘competition’. Far too many people think solely in terms of what Nietzche referred to as ‘the struggle of all against all’ (which manifests itself as ‘the rat race’ in peacetime countries and in total war otherwise). But ‘competition’ is only half of the story! This is a worldview which lacks a proper understanding of the nature and importance of ‘cooperation’; ‘competition’s’ complementary opposite. The fact of the matter is that humankind would never have survived were it not for cooperation; the fact is that we are SOCIAL animals who work together to achieve what individuals could never achieve on their own. In this day and age particularly, we most especially need to focus more on cooperation than competition, because it is the onesided, Social Darwinist view of the sole and ultimate importance of competition which leads to things like the GFC, terrorism and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. More importantly, the global problems we are facing require GLOBAL actions which must depend on GLOBAL cooperation if we are to have even a snowflake’s chance in hell of our species surviving much past the end of this century. If we don’t ALL work together to fix these problems; if we continue to be concerned only about Number One and maintain a ‘grab as much as you can and to hell with everyone else attitude’, then, as Mr Frazer, from Dad’s Army was always so fond of saying, “We’re DOOMED!”
Anyway, that’s my two-penn’orth!
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I agree with this. Thought provoking and original. Good stuff Astyages.
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Thanks Vivienne…
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Lethal. Guns and humanoids. Better off to do away with them.
How many people could he have killed with a cricket bat?
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Guns up humanoids cause haemorrhoids!
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Or fissures
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It will be puzzling why he did this. He is the one to throw light on it. But will he?
Adolf’s mum thought her son was a lovely boy. He used to stand on his toes, hardly reaching the sink, help her do the dishes. He was always kind to her and the neighbours, bringing in the garbage cans, helping old ladies across the road. How did he turn from a doting son to the Fuhrer?
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Adolf Hitler, is, of course, THE classic example of a practitioner of the scapegoat mentality, Helvi… Without using the Jews as social scapegoats, he could never have done anywhere near as much damage as he ended up doing…
WWII and the Holocaust are perfect examples of what happens when the scapegoat mentality comes to be accepted as normative by the rest of society. Given the increasing (and, without reference to a ‘scapegoat mentality’, otherwise inexplicable) popularity of social Darwinist ideologies we need to be doing all we can to deconstruct such ideologies, rather than let our silence on the subject allow their perpetuation and virus-like spread.
🙂
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PS: the second paragraph also explains exactly why I feel it is necessary to deconstruct christianity as much and as often as I can…
😉
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I am surprised why no one seems to have brought sex into his personae. Did he have a friend and sex partner. What about his dad not having had contact since 1995? He lived with his mother. He doted on her!
You would be hard put to blame Norway for his deeds. Bad parenting? I think the parenting bit on outcome of progeny is a bit over-rated.
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I’m not blaming Norway, Gerard; but rather particularly extreme interpretation of right-wing ideologies, prevalent in all modern western post-industrialist, capitalist-colonialist societies, which have their basis in the ‘Chosen Ones’ mentality fostered by christianity.
Check out the relative popularity of extreme right-wing ideologies in Scandinavia, Gerard, and you will discover that they’re far more common than we have hitherto suspected. And child-rearing is a process which may include parenting, but ‘bad parenting’ alone is not the sole cause either… it’s only part, albeit a large part, of the social mechanisms which produce the social Darwinist, scapegoating mentality, which is demonstrably at the base of the causal pyramid…
And sure, his notions on sex and sexuality may also have some bearing (ouch!) on the case, but, I would suggest, only as far as notions of sexual and racial ‘purity’ are connected to, and articulated within, a social Darwinist ideology.
😉
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From the pedant:
Latin
Singular: Persona. (mask, character/role)
Plural: Personae
And, while I’m at it:
Greek
Singular: Phenomenon (what can be seen, observed; in modern usage: stunning, impressive)
Plural: Phenomena
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Very interesting. I think you’re barking up the wrong tree, frankly, but that’s only my opinion.
You want the cause to be Christianity, but I more get the impression that he’s latched onto Christianity as an instrinsic part of Norwegian culture, rather than as a deep personal belief in and of itself.
Your charactersiation of good and evil as wholly relative is an opinion. There are others.
Likewise with your coming down wholly on the nurture side of the nature vs. nurture debate.
He does seem to have a distorted world view, and it would be interesting for someone intelligent and professional to study him and analyse how that happened. The problem with that is that he is very image conscious and likely to disguise himself deliberately. Less interesting to me than why he ended up with this particular distortion, is why he has a significant distortion of any type at all. In particular, whether he needed a distortion to justify to himself the kind of action that he wanted to do anyway.
I don’t believe that society creates this problem, although obviously it has some bearing on what form the problem takes. IMO there is a ceratin type of person that is very much prone to go off the rails in this way.
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And your point being? [geez]
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And yours?
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My point is why write so much to say so little
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You know me Hung, complex and ignorant
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Voice, I know you think that perhaps my views on christianity are what have informed my views on violence, but frankly it’s the other way ’round: before writing ‘AOV’ I was an ex-christian, it’s true; but it was not until I realized the profound connection between violence and the central symbol of christianity that I became ‘anti-christian’… Besides, I don’t blame JUST christianity, but rather the process of scapegoating, which is much older and much more widespread; christianity is merely one of the most common modern sources of the ‘scapegoating’ mentality which expresses itself through violence. But given the centrality of christianity to western ‘civilization’, it is a connection which cannot be denied and must therefore be explored.
I do realise that there is also the ‘nature’ part of the debate, but I really don’t believe that anyone is actually ‘born evil’… or ‘mad’; but I CAN see quite easily how the ‘cognitive dissonance’ which is caused by the differences between reality as it is experienced and the ideals of ideological indoctrination can drive a person ‘mad’; and as I’ve said, the ‘madness’ explanation, in and of itself, actually explains nothing, most particularly because madness itself is recognized even by psychiatrists and psychologists these days as having social causes (in that branch of psychology known as ‘social psychology’, which is, in fact, merely the appropriation of sociological theories and arguments by psychologists!) even though the locus for treatment of this problem is still (mistakenly) seen as the individual ‘mind’… (which is why so many people who respond to treatment in psychiatric hospitals ‘relapse’ as soon as they leave the hospital and re-enter their ‘normal’ social environment).
On the other hand, although christians might like it to be so, it is not the case that the ‘nature’ side of the equation is 100% of the cause either… no-one is born evil… or mad, but given a life which includes serious social disadvantage and constant childhood abuse and/or indoctrination into ideologies which are constructed along Social Darwinist lines, it’s easy to see how these can structure thinking such that it produces ‘madness’, and ‘insanely’ violent reactions… It is in the process of childrearing itself that we inculcate these violent tendencies, though admittedly some individuals are perhaps more prone to act on their violent impulses. Society DOES create these monsters; ignoring the social production of such individuals will only help perpetuate the problem because it is, in a sense, the very refusal to recognize social causes which allow such social causes to continue to be effective…
🙂
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No it doesn’t. 🙂
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Now you’re just ‘stirring’ Voice!
😉
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But in Breivik’s own mind he was apparently doing something he thought was ‘nessessary’… In his own mind he was fighting the good fight.
We don’t really know yet.
However a good article, with lots to digest Asty.
I’ll have another look tonight when I come home and sit down with a nice cup of orange pekoe.
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I seem to remember a news item which reported that when the police arrested him he told them that what he’d done was ‘necessary’… (of course, just ’cause HE thinks it’s necessary, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s actually necessary!)
But thanks for your comment, VL; let me know what you think after you’ve digested it a bit…
🙂
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It’s an old argument really: Blame someone else. The system if you hate it. The military school that you failed at, or the Uni that you flunked. There’s companies that are blamed for sacking workers. Lovers shot for loving.
Every now and again these fractured beings are thrown up . Al queda have a million of misguided souls, indoctrinated into believing…whatever. Imagine if they had been bought up in loving caring homes?
He (the Norwegian)was just another latent psychopath .
We each carry a responsibility. But the problem is that now that the family is fucked, by bad parentage, good manners and proper behaviour is out the window.
Roll on Global warming. There’s nothing like disaster to galvanise people. And force them to bond.
I agree about global cooperation. It seems inevitable to me that we will have global governance. A pattern has developed since the stone-age. we are grouping and depending more on resourses in other countries. China is buying up everthing. And I mean everything. Minerals, land for food. They are really colonising with bribes.
But I don’t have a problem with it. it’s a natural progression as I see it.
So sorry, I have got off the subject, but my fingers are just typing the thoughts that spring out.
In one sense of course punishing this guy won’t necessarily have an effect on other psycos. But I don’t see any harm in getting rid of him. He can serve no future purpose and will die anyway in the next 90 years. Why not bring it forward. We could keep his brain to see if there are any clues. That may be useful in avoiding similar episodes.
II he had shot my daughter, I would attempt to kill him. 😦
Revenge yeah. So what?
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forgot to press follow up notification.
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“It’s an old argument really: Blame someone else.”
Precisely, VL! This is the ‘scapegoat mentality’ in a nutshell! A very old argument indeed… which goes right back as far as Abraham!
“He (the Norwegian)was just another latent psychopath .”
Perhaps, VL, but if you understand what I’m saying, you may realise that “There but for fortune go you or I…” You refer to these creatures as ‘fractured beings’, yet seem to ignore how they became ‘fractured beings’ or what fractured them!
As for punishing Breivik, although it is perhaps ‘natural’ to want ‘revenge’ (which is the very oldest of all human ‘laws’), yet seeking to revenge ourselves on the individual when the real causes of the individual’s actions are social, is not just to miss the point, but in fact to turn such individuals into yet more scapegoats and thus to put us, and ‘society-as-a-whole’ on the same level as Breivik… AND perpetuate the ‘scapegoat mentality’.
However, I must also confess that were anyone to attempt to hurt my granddaughter I’d probably feel much the same way as you do… I suppose the true test of our ‘humanity’ is whether we really would take our revenge, or allow the body of social laws which have been built up specifically to ameliorate the ‘Law of Revenge’ and mitigate its otherwise virus-like spread (as demonstrated so beautifully in the Greek histories of the House of Atreus), to deal with the real problem in a more humane manner… and lock the bastards away for the rest of their lives!
😉
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