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The treasury informs us that 2.4 billion has been spent on detaining boat people since 2000. This has worked out at $100.000, — per boat people. I wonder how long this stupid waste of money will be allowed to continue. The tide in favour of off shore detention has now been shrinking, and ever so slowly there now appears the realisation, that, if not from an humanitarian point, but from a financial point of view, we might be better off to swallow our pride or blind obstinacy and simply do what the rest of the world has been doing for many years, dealing with a difficult problem that presents itself directly on most of their doorsteps on a never ending and daily basis.
After all, not many countries have the luxury of spare and submissive countries or excised islands close by where refugees can be send to and let to slowly languish into a trickle while getting their status processed. In the meantime, as we get pointed out daily, concerns about their treatment, resulting in hundreds of cases of self harm and mental break-downs, riots and AFP involvements is ringing alarm bells worldwide especially amongst the UNHCR. No matter what we do to try and repel the boat people, they will undertake those dangerous voyages, no matter what we try to discourage them or brutalize them. They have nothing to lose.
So what is that fear that Australia has about dealing with boatpeople that, no matter what, will continue to arrive at our doorstep? Are they armed or pose threats? Do they come with murderous intent, rape and pillage? The most and not unreasonable assumption is, that many more will arrive, if we let our guard down. That might well be true. So what? Australia happily takes in more than a hundred thousand migrants in a year. Suppose, if a thousand boatpeople a week arrive on our shores a week. What is the problem with that?
Surely, by reducing our normal intake of migrants by fifty thousand would still not increase the overall number. Consider that the reduction of fifty thousand migrants from ‘normal’ channels are those that are probably with much less urgent needs to come here, then why not kill 2 birds with one stone. Consider how our image would change overnight?
Instead of being looked upon by many with the horrors piped out on TV’s world- wide, first with The Tampa and then the terrible sights of roof-top refugees, burning and self harming, those terrible drowning at Christmas Island. Sometimes, the footage resembles something close to the torture on Guantanamo Bay where hundreds are also still languishing after many years.
The advantage of age is the luxury of hindsight. I remember still a similar fear of refugees and new-comers in the late fifties and sixties. The ‘reffos’ and Italians and Greeks were knife pullers and worse, garlic eaters. They would catch trains or buses while speaking strange languages. That fear for Southern Europeans later changed into a fear for the boat-people from Vietnam. They would bring exotic diseases and wore funny hats.
All of those fears were unfounded. Can you imagine Australia without the huge benefits from all those brave enough to have had the guts to come here? We would all still be slurping milk-shakes, eating meat pies with lamingtons in hand, and thronging around the 6’o’clock ‘time-out gentlemen’ pubs. The Sundays, they were deadly quiet with just the stray dogs about, scratching their fleas at deserted suburban rail-stations.
We now again still seem to harbour those fears for the Afghans, Burmese or Iraqis, again based on fried air, nothing much more.
What is that fear and why do we allow fear to compete so sadly with compassion?
Come on Aussies. Open your hearts. Take the risk and deal with those unfortunate boat-people arrivals as best as we can. Deal with the problem with honesty and do it in the country where they wanted to come to, Australia. Show the world we care and have compassion. We are the largest and least densely population country in the world. Not just a country but a complete continent. Let’s also have the largest hearts.

I not going to add much here other than to say that some of the comments and attitudes expressed here are disappointing.
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There are some excellent responses over at, “Breaking the stalemate”.
In particular, some well written explanations about airports, gerard.
You had bought that subject up before, and maybe my explanation wasn’t satisfactory. However a couple of posters have nailed it there.
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Changing tack a little, surely this transference to Malaysia, has some merit?
There is no argument, or, if there is, I’ve never read one, that refugees should be treated humanly, by those of us that are not refugees.
If they are running from the most dire circumstance and have been in a Malaysian camp, for several hopeless years, why not give them that chance of a life here?… Their places will be taken by people that were free, the day before they took passage. Because we know 100%, that they are not herded on to the boats, but travel to them, willingly–passing through other borders, paying bribes and lodging. In fact they could have used their cash to do other things (I guess)…And they may well do that now.
It seems a win, win situation, to me.
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VL, are you referring to Lord Funston and to someone else who writes like him ?(can’t remember the pseudo) Some of the Piglets write under multitude of monikers but I always spot them…
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No, Helvi. I was referring to el-viejo ect.
I have explained Lord Funston elsewhere.
BTW, you should put your email alert on, since you must have turned away when I mentioned the Toggenburgs 🙂
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VL, that’s right, I remember you mentioned the Toggenburgs last night, and indeed at that time our Anglo neighbours arrived 🙂
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They can also become MacMansion people, still others Rockdale RSL member people, tax paying people or even Australian people. They generally become tolerant people, compassionate people. Sadly a few become blinded to the plight of others and these are known to be suffering from xenophobic blight. Fortunately it is not contagious and can generally be cured with a diet of raw herrings with onions. This also helps with worms.
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Boat people arrivals come irrespective of what Australia does or doesn’t do. When they arrive in our waters and seek care, we have a duty to give that care. Locking them up off-shore in isolation and behind razor fences is not ‘care’.
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Gerard, I’ve often wondered. When boat people transfer ashore do they become land people? Just askin….:)
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Malaysia is not off shore.
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Sometimes they become landed gentry, and people arriving by air become airheads…true.
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http://wikitravel.org/en/Malaysia
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We do NOT take in the most refugees per capita.
Of the 10.4 million refugees under UNHCR’s mandate between 2005 and 2009, the largest numbers were being hosted by Pakistan (1,740,711), Iran (1,070,488), Syria (1,054,466), Germany (593,799), Jordan (450,756), the UNHCR’s ‘2009 Global Trends’ report reveals.
The five major refugee-hosting countries accounted for almost half (47 per cent) of people deemed refugees by UNHCR.
They were followed by Kenya (358,928), Chad (338,495), China (300,989), Vietnam (339,300), Eritrea (209,200) and Serbia (195,600).
Australia was ranked 47th, hosting 22,548 refugees between 2005 and 2009 (0.2 per cent of the global total).
Capacities and contributions of host countries
Pakistan hosted the highest number of refugees –mainly from Afghanistan — also compared to its national economy.
As such, it hosted 745 refugees per 1 USD GDP (PPP) per capita.
The Democratic Republic of the Congo was second with 592 refugees per 1 USD GDP (PPP) per
capita, followed by Zimbabwe (527), the Syrian Arab Republic (244), and Kenya (237).
The first developed country was Germany at 26th place with 17 refugees per 1 USD GDP (PPP) per capita.
Australia was 68th on a per capita basis and 91st relative to national wealth.
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Oh dear, gerard, I thought you’d lost interest in the rest of world and this was a purely Australian issue. Glad to see you’re not really that parochial after all.
The straw man argument you’ve put up there in order to knock down looks remarkably similar to something I said, so I guess I should answer. Me: “… we resettle the second highest number in the world after the US, and the highest per capita.”
You: “We do NOT take in the most refugees per capita”.
Resettle is quite a well-defined term. What I said is accurate. We accept them to live here with full legal rights. If you mean we don’t get the highest per capita number of refugees entering the country, well, duh. That goes to the countries bordering the countries that they are fleeing. That’s where we take most of our refugees from, refugee camps in neighbouring countries. Follow the link about Sudanese immigrants if you want to find out more about it.
Germany will be “taking in” fewer soon if the plan to reinstate border controls goes ahead. Even fewer if the EU implements proposals for “readmission accords” with countries in the Middle East and north Africa to send refugees back to where they came from.
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How do Kenyans get here? There’s no war there.
They are a stable country, so I imagine that any arrivals would have been based on their skills. I am not positive on that. But that would be my assumption.
Of course many Kenyans of Indian origin settled in The UK, under existing laws of colonial rights years ago. many many thousands. They came with British passports.
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I’m not sure VL but they are very dark and very British. Most of the Sudanese I have meet have PTSD along with many health issues and believe that praying to God will help you feel better.
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Oh well, they can all go to Libya now. It’s been freed from Gaddafi.
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Now if these boat people want to come here then they MUST play cricket
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Do you still have to answer questions on cricketers when you apply to be an Aussie citizen?
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I don’t know H. The thing with Bowral I suppose, I mean it’s a pretty town, but its only claim to fame is Don Bradman and as soon as he could he migrated to Adelaide
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But only without face shields or curtains.
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Most definitely
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I put the immigration figures on Gerard’s earlier article. We are going around in circles. We should do better.
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‘The ‘reffos’ and Italians and Greeks were knife pullers and worse, garlic eaters. They would catch trains or buses while speaking strange languages.’
Then there were the roving Dutch, peering through uncurtained windows. I’m putting down the metal shutters before any more come along!
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And yes sister, don’t forget the naughty Norwegians with there rollmops and clear beer
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Those roving Dutch have been to Bunnings and got jemmy bars. Watch it, Big M.!
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No one can argue with me when I say that I like the heading of this article 🙂
“The Cost Of Obstinacy”, pure poetry!
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I dunno, Gerard, we Australians are pretty parochial. One of the big stories in the Hunter Valley, last year, was about the local concerns regarding the Sudanese, they were ruining the town, running riot. The council put their collective feet down and refused to have any more resettled in their locality.
How many Sudanese were there (in a regional city of 50000)? Five.
How many more did the Federal govt want to send? Ten.
What were these reprobates up to? Riding bicycles and skateboards in the street, and (gasp) listening to music. Christ, they’ll have bloody Elvis Presley there next!!
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Sounds like you are inundated Big M, you should mooove
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Oh, but then he would miss the Sudanese music…
I wonder if my Anglo stronghold will ever get any of that Sudan colour, it’s all red ,green and navy with gold buttons here.
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Well H, it is Bowral after all
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Well Hung, I’m the only Finn in the Village…not adding much to the colour of the place, not even with my new coppery shade of hair …
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Odd that you chose to live there Helvi, when you wanted different coloured neighbours.
The information about where to find Sudanese immigrants in Australia isn’t kept secret.
Click to access community-profile-sudan.pdf
Not too late to move back to Sydney, or the Hunter if you want to avoid the crowds here.
BTW, that linked article provides quite extensive statistics about the 20,000 immigrants from Sudan to Australia. The numbers would be significantly higher now since the report is dated 2007. The majority came in on the Refugee and Special Humanitarian Programme. Not by boat though, but from refugee camps. Some of the people whose situtations gerard describes as “less urgent” than those who arrive by boat.
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They are definitely here Voice. I have had the opportunity lately to work with some Kenyans, lovely people. Very different to the Sudanese.
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Voice, where do I say that I WANT differently coloured neighbours, ‘wondering’ and ‘wanting’ are not synonyms.
I’m extremely happy with my neighbours.
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Show the world we care and have compassion.
It is of no interest whatsoever to me what other countries think of our laws–and in England recently, I never came across any one who knew anything about Australia, apart from the fact that we are very luck to have minerals that are easily dug-up through the open-cut mining process and that The Barrier reef was nearby.
What is your opinion of Scottish devolution? Don’t know? I’m not surprised.
What do you think of Mongolia’s participation in the Iraq war? Don’t know? I’m not surprised.
gerad, NOBODY cares about our laws. NOBODY.
So that leaves us.
Now YOU have set an arbitrary proposal that it’s OK for 1000 marine arrivals to arrive each week. Correct?
Well what if 1001 arrive? What do we do with the one thousand and first arrival?
And of course, if you take it further, since we will just allow them to land and assimilate, surely we have a duty of care to examine their boats before they leave port, to make sure that they can undertake the journey safely.
BTW, I may be wrong, but I thought that the figure (intake of refugees/asylum seekers) that was agreed to (by the government, I suppose ) was 12,000 pa?
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Here is an extract of an article just published on The Drum,
We can slip and slide and try and hide our heads in the sand and pretend we care, but our way of indefinite detention and off-shore imprisonment is not the way any society making claims to ‘ a duty of care’ can pursue without breaching the UNHCR convention.
Quote:
This week the High Court will have a look at the legality of the latest scheme for the treatment of asylum seekers arriving by boat. This time it will be the Gillard Government’s “Malaysia solution” under the judicial spotlight.
The court will be asked to scrutinise the Australian Government’s declaration that Malaysia is a safe place for asylum seekers awaiting determination of their claims. The Court will also be asked whether the Minister who is the guardian of unaccompanied minors arriving on our shores can discharge his public trust by shipping those in his charge offshore.
The Centre for Policy Development has today published a welcome report, A New Approach: Breaking the Stalemate on Refugees & Asylum Seekers. Its authors – John Menadue, Kate Gauthier and Arja Keski-Nummi – recommend that Parliament legislate for an “independent Refugee, Asylum and Humanitarian Assistance Authority”.
The Centre for Policy Development has done the sums and found that, despite the public obsession with boat people being held in detention or offshore, “in the past 10 years 76 per cent of asylum seekers came to Australia by air”. They recommend that all asylum seekers be processed on shore. The latest Nielsen poll shows that 53 per cent of Australians agree. Admittedly 15 per cent support the completely unprincipled idea of sending asylum seekers back out to sea. But only 28 per cent support the idea of sending them to other countries like Malaysia, PNG or Nauru.
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Well, that’s OK then.
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This is very unusual, another Finn, Arja Keski-Nummi….
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When you feel so strongly about increasing the population, you should really stand up for election on that issue. Then when you are swept into power you can carry out your wishes!! (obviously that is sarcasm…just for the record, as it seems that, sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek, are misunderstood in here.)
At the moment though we have elected the ALP, to run the country. If you disagree with the way they are doing it, put yourself up as knowing better–and advise them.
Not me. I’m to busy earning taxable income to donate to the government of the day.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I am not in a position to know whether we should accept another 20 people, or 20,000. And that bit of information is so critical, that any comment without it, is made in ignorance, in my view.
One can blithely say that Cairns could house another half million people, but as to the veracity of that or not, I wouldn’t know.
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I am not talking about increasing the population. It is about the abuse and brutalisation of boat people who as a direct result of indefinite detention off- shore and behind razor wire are suffering unimaginable horrors at our hands,, this includes children. If you or Voice want to talk about elections or Norway , large houses,, percentages,or Cairns that’s not what my piece is about.
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I very much doubt that the rest of the world is going to be overly concerned about the way Australia deals with refugees, although they will of course try to get us to accept more to try to reduce their own burden. Yet we resettle the second highest number in the world after the US, and the highest per capita.
The main problem with this article is that either you are either hiding the facts, or you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
In Australia as a whole 25% of our population is born overseas. In Sydney it’s 30%. European countries have about 10% or less of their citizens born overseas. And yet across Europe far right anti-immigration parties are rising in popularity in response to this.
Norway: Progess Party 22.9 %
Denmark: People’s Party 13.8% and it’s the third Party represented in Parliament
Sweden: Swedish Democrats 5.7%
Finland: True Finns 19.1%
The Netherlands: The Freedom Party has 24 seats and came third in the 2010 elections, won by the center-right VVD party which immediately pledged to get tough on immigration.
By contrast, at the height of its popularity the Australian equivalent party, One Nation, got 9% of the federal vote and has never had a member in the Lower House.
Mass drownings, and more recently mass deaths by suffocation due to overcrowding, are commonplace for boat people fleeing Africa for Europe. And yet the European countries are doing nothing to prevent it.
Malta, close to Africa, has a policy of mandatory detention of all immigrants including asylum seekers. In other European countries, such as The Netherlands, detention is not compulsory but it is the default for immigrants of insufficient means. Italy has had huge problems with boat people and rioting/fires etc. in detention camps. In fact, this is the norm for immigrant detention camps in Europe, not the exception, but Italy has had particular problems because it is relatively close to Africa by boat. Earlier this year Greece, another country of entry for immigrants into Europe through its land border with Turkey, proposed building a fence along the Turkish border to keep immigrants out.
All over Europe it is the Muslims who are the focal point for immigration problems.
The Schengen agreement is the agreement whereby signatory European countries removed border controls between each other. Recently a number of European signatories to the Schengen agreement, including France, have decided to take to the EU a proposal to reintroduce border controls in order to try to stop the northward flow of immigrants through other participating countries. Denmark, followed soon after by Norway, has already unilaterally reintroduced border controls in contravention of the agreement.
Immigration into the UK is a huge bone of contention between it and France, with French ports on the English Channel becoming sites for camps of immigrants attempting to go through France then cross to the UK
.
If you want to argue on the basis of moral responsibility, or any other basis you choose, fine, EXCEPT for some kind of sanctimonious fallacy that the rest of the world is shocked or dealing with the problem well.
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The world is grappling with refugees by the millions, especially those neighbouring countries that are the poorest. Witness especially the horn of Africa. I don’t care about bones of contention between the UK or France or percentages of intake in the many countries you mention.
I am talking about Australia and the way WE deal with the refugees or boat people. This is not a sport or race who is the most against refugees.
WE, as a nation proclaim we are civilized and compassionate. Our dealings with the problem of boatpeople is inhumane and seen as such. The numbers are minuscule compared with the tens of thousand that flee from war ravaged areas into Europe on a daily basis.
Australia has an enormous potential to take in refugees, mainly because of our extremely low population density. and surplus space. We take in at least well over a hundred thousand migrants a year. Why not take in those that are in the most need of rescuing from utter devastation and mayhem. It seems most logical.
Kick out the 40 thousand of those that are here illegally and overstaying their visas each year and replace with those genuinely in need of our compassion.
What have you got against that proposal and what are you actually for?.
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With respect gerard, it is up to the government of the day, to determine how many migrants can be admitted to a state, any state, or, any country. They have bureaus, jamb packed with scholars and statisticians, who can balance the costs, spaces and areas of land available and resources.
As I understand it, you are an artist and a hobby farmer.
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What I’ve got against “Kick out the 40 thousand of those that are here illegally and overstaying their visas each year and replace with those genuinely in need of our compassion ” is that it’s a nonsense proposal because it makes a nonsense assumption that we are not already kicking them out.
It would have been nice had your sudden lack of interest in other countries manifested itself before you wrote about how the horror of our treatment of refugees triggered alarm bells worldwide.
Look, I don’t want to point out every single piece of nonsense in this article or your reply. Your idea that we should ignore the fact that Australia is already doing better than any other country in the world, and that we should be even more civilised and compassionate than other countries than we already are is a bit unrealistic. After all, 25% of us come from those other countries. Do you think there’s a compassion/civilisation filter that soaks into people when they arrive?
I nominate Norway. They are one of the world’s top five most rich countries. Population the same as Victoria but half as big again. Plenty of soil and water. They can easily take 10 million and still have enough spare change to buy Denmark. It’s a kindness really. Give them the opportunity to live in the kind of high density housing you keep telling us that human beings naturally prefer (despite our downright ornery tendency to live in big houses when we afford to do so).
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Voice:
Of course we come mainly from other countries. How do you think we all got here, by astral travel perhaps? In Australia, apart from the indigenous we are all descendants from crofters, chimney sweeps, thieves, prostitutes, herring eaters or thatchers.
By the way 10 of Europeans is 90.000.000 and 25% of Australians born overseas is a mere 6.250.000. The former is more than the latter.
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I grade you 50%.
Tick for 90.000.000 > 6.250.000.
Cross for 25 > 75.
I repeat, 25% of us were born overseas. That means that 75% of us were born here. 75% is greater than 25%, so we do not mainly come from other countries.
Just out of curiosity though, what kind of response did you get when you made the proposal in The Netherlands to accept more refugees in place of as well as other immigrants? This IS about caring for refugees. Right? And I assume you are still a Dutch citizen as well as an Australian one? Lot of enthusiasm over there?
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In my case, Gerard, I’m a ‘refugee’ from a Thatcher!
😉
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This is the government’s problem.
They are led by Julia Gillard and the minister for this is…um, um I’m not sure, but they are the people to take it up with.
It’s only the government of the day that has any control over this gerard.
Vote them out!
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I nearly said Pyne, but I saw on SBS, it’s somebody else: Bowen.
He’s the one that you have to take it up with greard.
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At least Bowen’s heart is not in it. He does look dreadfully uncomfortable. Pyne is clearly in that enthusiastic league of those that would have helped close the latches on the cattle -trains to those gates of Arbeit macht frei. camps
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The Goverment of the day will respond to the changes of its voters. I have no doubt that boat-people will be dealt with on-shore soon.
The tide is turning and the cost just becoming untenable..If the numbers are a problem, let more boat people in and less migrants.
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No, its you and all of us that will add to those that are now wanting to change and have boat-people dealt with on-shore and accepted into the community that will make the government comply with basic human concerns. Its about Humanity not Governments.
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Both parties have painted themselves into a corner. The one because they’re just mean and bloody minded and the other because they do things that the poll merchants tell them to do. Admittedly, some good things come out of the second lot but, on this issue as well as a few others -like paying for the education of the financially privileged and neglecting the rest, or doing some real tax reform, some real work place reform, housing, health, privatising our assets, etc, etc, they are still jiggling the tea bag instead of getting on to drinking the tea.
Mindless guts from the one and no guts from the other. And the other should use this opportunity of an evenly balanced parliament to push for virtuous reforms and show some guts.
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Yes, sadly that’s true but there is hope. The tide is turning!
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