The Dump is:
For posting comments that don’t get up at the Drum, and for having a pleasant, mirthful or enlightening off-topic discussion.
It’s not for personal abuse of other commenters.
Please do that somewhere else if you must.
Play nicely or piss off.
However, why doesn’t a poster add a link for us to read and comment on here, much quicker. Maybe we can do a bit more bagging here, not that I speak for the moderators, yet.
NB: Being tiresome and boring, racist, sexist or just plain creepy is not playing nicely.
———-
The Pig’s Arms exists because a dozen or so years ago our other favourite playpen – the ABC’s Unleashed blogsphere started to go off. Like a sack of prawn heads in the sun. Something had to be done.
Moderation was taking forever. Comments seemed to be rejected randomly – outrageous ones appeared and reasoned ones were pinged. When they released the Drum / Unleashed ….. things actually got worse !
So many pieces from professional writers appear with no obvious merit. And the moderation has become, to put it frankly, appalling.
As a former contributor and a commenter, I was deeply disappointed at the plummeting quality from our pre-eminent media empire. And I resented so many challenging or dare I say, witty or funny posts in which we’ve invested seconds of our precious time – getting the chop.
So here, for all our benefit – is an open slather blog. Copy and paste your best rejected comments here for posterity. Does not matter whether you’re posting on the Guardian, First Dog on the Moon or wherever else.
And sprinkle pointers to the Pig’s Arms amongst your comments. Let’s try to rescue some of the old faithful.
Cheers,
Emm.
Window Dresser's Arms, Pig & Whistle 
On twitter:
They’ve just sent me an email telling me that the sin I had committed was for “aggressive following” they suspended me for but for using the @reply button the wrong way. No further explanation, just that I shouldn’t do that; and that they “hoped my issue was resolved!” My “query ticket was now closed!”
So, I sent them a reply to that… which I had to resend again and again because, AFTER you send a reply you are told to send it via another address and when you send it there you get an email telling you that you need to read 1000 incomprehensible words before you send it…
They are not listening, they are not reading they are not interested. They have simply put their office on auto pilot and the different formulas of incomprehensible crap get dispatched.
And they’re putting the thing up for listing on the DOW!
Shit, with such a disdainful attitude (I used that word, disdainful to them) towards their clients, I hope the bastards go massively under!
BASTARDS!
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Cathy’s lead seems to be shrinking. I hope it doesn’t shrink too much. 6000 votes to count and she’s only around 300 ahead.
I just took another look at Casidy’s page. Shit, I wonder if Bella also took a look. She’d be suicidal if she read half the comments there.
To use a description that has suddenly picked up currency, the atmosphere there is toxic! Lethally so. I’m beginning to feel sorry for the woman, which is a very odd feeling for me to have about that particular LNPer.
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where do you get that Ato, the AEC site shows her about 830 votes in front with all booths counted that being 89.3%. I think she’s over the line.
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Here Alge:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/newshome/18927469/mcgowan-wary-of-shrinking-lead-in-indi/
But yes, it’s not a solid number, just a fear because the “numbers are dropping” as per this quote:
“With just over 6000 votes to be counted in the north-eastern Victorian electorate, Ms McGowan was ahead of Mrs Mirabella by 837 votes about 4pm (AEST) on Saturday.
“I want to think it’s going well but the numbers have been dropping,” Ms McGowan told AAP on Saturday night.
“I’m still hopeful but I’m not there yet.”
She said local scrutineers predicted her lead could fall to as little as 300 votes by Monday.
“That might be enough but it’s falling down from the 800 it was yesterday,” Ms McGowan said.”
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Just read that article and I am not sure if Cathy and her scrutineers are on the right track. The votes to be counted are of a different nature. Those votes don’t come from people who voted on the day at polling booths in the electorate where the banners and posters all pretty well ditched the face of Sophie and had the scaremonger crap about how shit independents are. Playing down their hopes in the public/media eye is okay. Not a dark horse either. Don’t know where they got that. Every knew Cathy was a candidate and a lot knew her.
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My concern is that Yahoo/7 is somewhat conservative thinking and would put a Liberal spin on the article, for what its worth. 800 in front with supposedly 6000 left to count would require the grub to pick up something like 65% of the remaining vote. It’s not there. I suspect the grub will get Steve Bracks place in New York. What a horrid thought.
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Cathy is 837 ahead. With only 1054 postal votes remaining to be counted and 3535 early pre-poll plus some odds and sods I think Cathy will hang in there. The drop in Cathy’s vote has been from the postal voting as best I can see. Mirabella sent out postal votes to everyone, Cathy didn’t. We do know that traditionally postals go to the sitting candidate or the Libs – just the way things are. With 837 lead I think Cathy can withstand further losses on postals. It remains therefore in the hands of the pre-poll voters and I think, I believe, I hope, that they will go more to Cathy. It is tight and we just have to wait another couple of days. Then no doubt there will be a recount. Cathy and Voice for Indi set out to make Indi marginal and have succeeded, win or lose. If Cathy wins it will be just glorious for the north-east and for people like me just a hop, step and jump away from the area. Both daughters live in Indi – we all have fingers and toes crossed.
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Oh, yes, I admit, win or lose, the exercise was most fruitful!
Where did you get the 3535 figure from Vivie?
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Go to the Declaration Vote Scrutiny Progress link which is on the same page as the actual Indi voting most are looking at.
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Looks like only 515 votes ahead now. 😦
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I said before that the grub has been mortally wounded by this. Even if she pulled off a miracle from here, it would be stuffed at the next election. So Cathy has achieved her goal even if she’s not elected.
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Just dropped to 769 lead for Cathy. Only 54 postals remain. So the trend should soon change if I am right. The loss of lead numbers has all occurred during the counting of the 10000 ish postal votes. So, Cathy is holding her own really. (I wasn’t sure if they were going to count today – not taking a day off is certainly doing the good thing by Indi.)
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So Mirrabella would need 2180 of the 3589 votes left to count to win by a vote, that would seem unlikely.
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I must say, I’ve never seen so much hatred directed at anyone for a long time. Not even Abbott copped this much! I wonder what her family thinks about it all.
I bet the quality of Mr Bella’s conjugal performance has diminished somewhat by now.
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Well she has certainly screwed over the people of Indi for a long time. Perhaps they’ve had enough.
Maybe Mr Bella has a special arrangement.
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In total there are 5111 votes remaining to be counted – majority are pre-poll, then absentee, provisional etc.
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Bugger – the early pre-poll favouring Mirabella by a lot. Down to 515 lead.
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Who would have thought that there’s a chain of American schools called “Break Neck!”
They’ll be staging/studying one of my translations!
And just now I gave my permission to a school in Santa Barbara, California to study another one.
Heaps of praise about the website, of course… goes without saying!
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Congratulations Ato. Nice to have news like that.
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I’m a little uncomfortable with the comic on the front page. Perhaps I’m missing some nuance (please help me out if I am) but I don’t like the ‘who cares about misogyny?’ joke. Either we care or we don’t. There can be no domain dependence. We can’t relish it, we can’t walk past it (General Morrison’s exhortation rings in my ears) just because the person its directed at is objectionable.
I object to Mirabella. But lets focus on what makes her objectionable (which the rest of the comic does, its a shame it has this flaw) and that’s not her gender.
It seems some people missed my earlier point. But jokes about laying on Mirabella to asphyxiate her aren’t cool either.
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Yes, you’re missing a nuance. As I read it, the first panel basically points out the hypocrisy of saying all nasty attacks on Gillard are misogynist but Mirabella is fair game. Next panel he goes on to lambast Mirabella anyway. It’s a typical First Dog self-awareness thing and typical FD parody – which you of all people should recognize Mr DNHF.
It’s certainly not saying that misogyny is OK.
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DUCWIM ?
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Guess that serves me right. Basically it’s a pseudo on The Drum – Den Nordiska Herrenfolket. Or something similar.
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Aaah, UDCWIM?
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Text Messaging Abbreviations & Shortcuts;
OTTOMH – Off The Top Of My Head
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Now I see what you mean.
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YNGTGSSE.
Just made that up.
Yawning now, going to get some shut eye 😉
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I didn’t miss it; just avoided it. HPH is like herpes.
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I wish some of those right-wingers from The Drum were here.
I know how to make love to them as well. 🙂
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You contribute so so much here Julian, Is an article forthcoming soon perchance?? 😛
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It’s getting to look like Gillard is beginning to act the way Rudd was accused of acting: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/13/julia-gillard-labor-purpose-future
and
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-14/julia-gillard-slams-labors-leadership-rules/4957886
She doesn’t like Rudd’s new rules about giving the rank and file a voice.
It’s distressing to see these “entitled” ones not wanting to allow their entitlement bestowed upon them by their constituents and to so prefer to keep playing the game of “plunge-the-knife” in their rumpus room.
Democracy means government by the people and for the people, which most indubitably demands that decisions about leaders -and to my thinking, major policies- be made by the people.
Members of a party should be given the right to vote on such weighty matters and the elected leaders should then get on with doing the job for which they were elected to do by those members. The responsibility of the success or otherwise of those decisions then falls upon those members.
There are many other structural things I’d like to see changed in the ALP but for now, I am angry that Gillard is showing as much bitterness as Rudd was supposed to have shown. This bitterness is most probably 9/10ths of what has brought about their downfall. It certainly wasn’t Abbott’s moronic policies.
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I can’t agree with that characterization of Gillard. She’s owning her views, not leaking them to reporters anonymously. Neither did she recontest her seat and hang about Parliament as a contender.
It was self-serving of Rudd to introduce those rules.
You might like some of the rules but I don’t think you can accuse Gillard of doing a Rudd.
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I agree with you voice as regards the characterization of Gillard, she didn’t say boo during the election campaign nor did show any bitterness towards others. Nor does she see herself as entitled unlike the wanker that replaced her. As you say it’s all about Rudd nothing else.
I don’t think she is showing any bitterness now. However I agree with you Ato that their continual infighting is what bought their demise and not anything that Adolf had to offer; what did he offer again?
In saying that the rank and file getting a say has a lot of merit to it, instead of some union hack getting parachuted into seats where others are more suited. It actually takes some of the disproportionate representation of the unions in the party out of play.
I’m pleased that Rudd has gone, a work colleague (a party member mind you) told me he hoped he had lost his seat, I didn’t go that far, however his asylum seeker actions was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I couldn’t vote Labor 1 for the first time in 20 years.
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No, the point is threefold: She is talking to the media about Rudd and accusing him of countless damning things, though that is not the issue. The issue is timing and the timing is inappropriate since the party is about to use these rules to elect their leader. It is a pre-emptive attack on the legitimacy of these leaders, even though she was condescending enough to give both of them a backhanded compliment; and an attack upon the rank and file who would, for the first time ever be given something to think about.
The second point goes to her view of entitlement. A small caucus is far easier to manipulate and to make Hawke-Keating type deals which exclude completely the members. It was thought to be an exceedingly arrogant thing to do back then and, I’d suggest, that criticism has not lost its validity.
If the ALP (read here Gillard) wants to boast about letting the sun shine in and make every process transparent, then inviting the punters in is what is going to do it.
Thirdly it continues to give air to the criticism that the ALP loves talking about itself.
Already Conroy came out and now Burke, each on opposite sides. Who’s next, Emmerson? Others from the Left and the right?
The holding on to the power part (the number of caucus needed to oust a leader, might well be changed later, hopefully, again after consulting with the membership). As well, when a leader is performing so badly that he needs to be replaced he will know that, or enough people will tell him that, that he will resign himself.
But, for the moment, Gillard gives the impression that she is a sore and bitter loser who is more looking to damaging the party rather than letting it heal.
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On timing: It’s appropriate to have the discussion at the earliest possible opportunity i.e. now. It really wasn’t right to introduce the changes without proper discussion in the first place. They should have waited until after the election to stand or fall on their merit in open Party debate. It would have been electoral suicide to debate them before the election, which is presumably why KRudd introduced them then – effectively he blackmailed the Party into it.
On the number of caucus to oust a leader – I don’t have a view. But Gillard is entitled to air hers.
On the subject of Labor talking about itself all the time – trivial compared to introducing a change like this without talking about it.
I don’t get the impression that you do so it’s obviously subjective.
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It is not a preemptive attack at all Ato. I think you should re-read the whole essay and then concentrate on the bit about the new rules and her own hopes. If there is any attack it is solely about Rudd, full stop. She remains too kind though – quite restrained (to me).
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Wrong Ato. Gillard is probably more concerned about the 75% required (something like that) – it is a ridiculously high figure set in train by Rudd to help save Rudd. But he has resigned as leader and left it to others to deal with. Julia has written beautifully and frankly. Ato, you’re guilty of reading into the essay things which are not there. I know you don’t/didn’t care for Julia but you should remain fair. And, more frankly, I think Rudd is sick.
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I liked neither, vivie.
The policies of both towards humanitarian issues were far beyond my level of tolerance and extremely disappointing to me.
But this is not what I am concentrating on here.
It might be a cliche to say that membership is the lifeblood of a party but the fact is that this is a fact and a fact often forgotten.
It is the membership that is “out there” on the work force, dealing the challenges of everyday life, relating to their neighbour, supporting businesses, paying the utilities bills, dealing with transport and toll roads and the exorbitant petrol prices, sending their kids to wars and it is they who will ask themselves, “why am I paying these membership fees so that these mongrels up there can pat each other on the back or play musical daggers and not listen to a thing I’m saying, or attending to any of my concerns. And, “my concerns” so far membership is concerned, is not an expression of selfishness but of community, since issues are debated often to buggery before minds are made up.
It is the membership who will spread the word about the party’s good work but they’ll do it if that’s how they feel and, extremely importantly, if they (the members) are many in number.
Look at the headlines: Gillard slams Labor!
It’s mana for the Murdochs of this world -and isn’t the ABC one of them?
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Wherever possible the media always headlines everything as an exciting battle – presumably it sells. Once you read the articles you often find the headlines are quite misleading.
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I’m only in touch with three ALP members these days and one of them told me that their branch lost nearly half their members when Rudd was deposed and the number of those who have not renewed their membership was steadily rising. They saw no point. And whilst, he thinks most will have still voted for Labor, they would do so because they couldn’t bering themselves to vote for Abbott. Not the greatest motivator for voting Labor.
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Shit Ato, Julia didn’t put the headline there. The Guardian is the sensible one here. I do think that the caucus knows better than the members of the party when it comes to leadership. The fact that they fell in a heap in ditching Julia for Rudd does put the blight on that but they ran scared, scared of the media and the effing polls. However, and this is a big however, the whole rule thing was for Rudd to look after Rudd while he was still deluded to think he would win the whole election. I don’t know if our local branch has changed much since I left it in 1989 but I wouldn’t give them much credit for having sufficient brains to make a very good decision on nearly everything. The ‘women hating’ men in that branch drove away the feminists. I won’t tell you my story but suffice to say that party members are not good judges.
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It’s the Guardian that I read.
And vivie, that attitude -that the caucus knows better about leadership- is exactly what gets the membership angry and disengaged. Abandoning the place.
Let the caucus talk to the members; ask them to choose. That’s what these rules are about. Let the candidates come out and talk to them. Put their case, their policies, their political views to them and then have some numerical formula which may be used to satisfy the two sides.
Don’t let the caucus have a battle of factions but a battle policies – in front of the membership. I don’t care how long the process takes. They can also come up with some interim mechanism if time bugs them. Everything is possible. Exclusion is tantamount to division and, as they all said often enough, division is death.
The membership does not comprise entirely of stupid stupid people and this might well increase by enough to render itself incapable of being corrupted or swayed by vested interests.
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Ato – you are saying what Julia just wrote. Now the extent of member’s concerns about getting a say in electing a Labor leader – seems to have only risen post Rudd 2010. They never had a say in his becoming leader in the first place ! To swiftly get rid of a failing leader would require that person to own up and to resign. Now only one challenger and that person gets the gig. Two and then the whole membership and caucus have to vote. Not all that sure that it all makes sense. I’m just saying that I’m with Julia and seems you don’t entirely disagree.
On a different subject – am cooking lamb’s fry for dinner – I love it.
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There is some young cook driving me nuts on the tele – cooking my favourites – crayfish and oysters etc from King Island.
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Vivienne, are you talking about that nice young man, Adam(?) on SBS on Thursday night, I like him and his cooking, he’s not up himself, pleasant…and his food is also simple…I cooked his pasta dish. The other on whom I don’t mind is the Vietnamese chef Nguyen (?)
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No, it was something on Sat arvo – travel show. I too watch the SBS Thursday night – Adam came through from Master Chef. All Luke’s stuff has been marvellous – where he goes and what he cooks. The weather here post election day has been cold and cloudy. Today is looking much better.
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Did anyone catch Hung One On’s pearl at The Drum? Wants to lay on Mirabella until she’s asphyxiated apparently. I think the moderator emerged from a slumber and has removed it.
Do I detect a hint of sexual violence in that murder joke? What a mark!
It was, of course, an excellent example of the edgy wit of the intellectual left. It was a pun on someone else wanting to lay off Mirabella. I commend it to this forum and invite applause.
Nothing like the inherently uncivil and nasty liberal voters at The Drum.
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I tell a lie. Its still there at Cassidy’s article
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Don’t think too much it will only confuse you.
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Exactly hph. You are the essence of civility. We could discuss the issues. Or we could trade insults.
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That was HOO at his best that, There were a few other gems there as well.
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Why isn’t Hungie coming back to Pigs? Also, did you see the Turner exhibition in Canberra? We might see it during the week, less crowded I hope. Were there long queues?
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We did see Turner, quite enjoyed it Friday was a good day to go down and see it no crowds. It finishes tomorrow. Traffic and some of the drivers on the way back was a joy though.
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Comments on Cassidy’s article were sometimes hysterical. I shut down computer around 5 pm so missed some beauties replying to Stuffed Olive. Annie Mac (also pretending she lives in Indi). For anyone at the pub who is interested – Cathy did not preference anyone – her how to vote was simply vote 1 or Cathy and choose your own preferences. Her father was a big wig in the Liberal Party. Cathy is so delightfully fair the idea of there being any deceit is outrageous, extreme and obviously total BS. The honesty of her campaign was in the extreme – poll booth captain did not complain to the electoral officer about the grossly excessive and total space consuming Liberal banners, posters and A frames (some of them were actually against the rules in location and regarding their message). I first met Cathy about 30 years ago.
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I didn’t reply to anything yesterday as I got home too late to do so. However looking at the tory trolls carrying on just made me laugh. It appears that there are so many on both sides happy to see that Mirrabella has gone. What’s the bet that Bishop gives her Bracks post in New York.
Anyhow the Tories have to govern now don’t they. Indonesia have already told him to F off. I can imagine SBY telling the same to his face when they meet.
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Interesting little Ted talk by british Labour MP, Natascha Engel about the divorce between politicians and the public:
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Go Albo!
Can’t stand Shorty. Silver spooned Tory.
But I soooo Tanya would have a go!
Anyhow, the best thing about Albo putting his hand up is the fact that Rudd’s (remember him?) ballot rule will be activated and we shall see the opening up of such important processes.
Betsuz all ten kourabiethed Albo wins!
I’m very excited about this. Won’t be switching my ballot numbers though.
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How the fluck does one switch off this autocorrect thing! It keeps stuffing my words!
I’d hang the bastard by his/her short ‘n curlies if I get a hold of him or her!
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Tresting, short ‘n culries basetard hald,,,, Woo hoo! Clebver met! I’ve descuvered hoo to sshit the autocorat orf!
I’m a nerd, neh neh neh neh!
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When you’re hot you’re hot Ato.
I much prefer Albo to Shorten. In my eyes Shorten stuffed up this year in more than one way.
Albo is inspiring. I like him.
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He’ll be a breath of fresh air, Vivie. A real break from the anointed ones, by birth or by rumpus room bullies. What a formidable they’d make though, if Tanya could be his second! This bullshit about left-right factions might sound nice in theory but it’s destroying the party; and it seems to be doing it just when they are given a bit of a chance by the electorate. Always fuck up the last minute!
Let’s see though what Albo can do with it if he gets in. I know what Shorty will do.
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Albo will win the rank and file vote.He’s old fashioned Labor. Likes nothing more than taking it up to the Tories, He’d be my choice, would like to see Tanya have a go too but won’t if Albo gets up as that would be two from NSW and adjoining seats what’s more.
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hph, I ventured on the Drum today, they must have missed me as I got quite a few replies, first the ones against my views , then the good people, the agreers…. The problem is, it takes too long to see if anyone has replied , so I tend to forget on which blog I wrote…
Ah well it’s not like the old Unleashed… sigh…
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Good to see you there, Helvi. At least you are getting your comments up. I think they got sick of me: spasticus
You are right, it’s not like the old unleashed. Sometimes I forget, too, and I have to visit each page and do a search with ‘Find on this page..’ from the drop down menu ‘Edit’ at the top of my browser.
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Ditto. The Libs there are still spewing hate and still off the topic. They remain pathetic.
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Saw something from Alfie today talking about how nasty people were to Mirrabella. From Alfie! Pot kettle black!
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A hilarious picture of Mirabella giving us all a good bye kiss:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/mirabella-could-kiss-seat-goodbye-20130909-2tgcn.html
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See what I mean about the cat’s bum.
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🙂 🙂
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More like a Macaque’s bum!
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After a big dose of beetroot. It’s the first thing that I thought of when I saw the photo.
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And so the push for Work Choices and the enslavement of australian workers begins (enslavement being the core requirement of free market capitalism):
Myer chief Bernie Brookes appeals for new Coalition government to review penalty rate increases
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-12/myer-boss-appeals-for-new-government-to-review-retail-penalty-r/4953952
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Is anyone as cynical as me, suspecting the hand of the Libs in that “clerical error” of the 1000 lost-and-found votes?
After 1975 I suspect everything that looks suspicious until I am given proof positive that suspicion is not warranted.
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If it was it was of no use. The tallying of votes sorted it out. It wouldn’t have gone undetected – to the best of my knowledge anyway. They obviously need to ensure the staff are a bit more careful, as in accurate – everything is usually double checked.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_McGowan
That’s the only one that I know. So help me out – is Cathy (Indi) labor, or Liberal?
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Independent you dimwit. Go to Cathy’s website. Not hard to find. Read more.
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Carisbrooke;
I really meant a more embracing and all encompassing change that the conservative Liberal party has achieved to the benefit of all Australia. Something like a reasonable pension, or health initiative, aboriginal care and restoration of wrongs done, free dental care, affordable housing, child care etc. That sort of thing.
From Abbott, I have yet to hear much in those areas and only go by his promise of undoing the Carbon Tax, The Mining Tax and stop the boats.
If stopping those taxes and the boats will make a better more inclusive and tolerant Australian society, let’s wait, but I have my doubts.
The squabbles about who pays for this or that and Abbotts charities and his bicycle rides is just tedium and I can’t think of pertinent questions put by you that haven’t been answered. If so, put them again, please.
I think one question put to you of what you thought of Norway keeping control of their resource (oil) and having achieved the highest pension fund in the WORLD compared with Australia having lost control of its resources having sold it to a few individuals and their shareholders ,and having therefore lost a chance forever for Australia to have all the funds available for free education and free hospitals for all, good roads, fast trains, internet comparable with the world, beautiful architecture, affordable housing etc. In other words a leader in the world instead of a US style lackey.
You haven’t answered that question.
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Well I am not sure about the history of pensions here.. I suppose that they were introduced in the early 1900s.
Squabbling about who pays may be tedious for you of course, since you probably don’t pay.
I don’t know why joint resource exploration wasn’t set up here, as it was in Norway. I wasn’t around. Obviously the companies should have been set up as Norway did to be similar – and they weren’t. I came here after you had already done that Gerard. You’ll have to tell me why?
The way to get money into the system from taxpayers is to increase the GST, to bring it into line with Scandinavian and Germany. It’s easy to change the ratings for pensioners and children. I haven’t read that Labor has proposed this.
At the moment the true figure of full time workers( outside of public service) is about 15%. Obviously, they can’t pay much tax, so it’s up to the rest of us. And the easier it’s made for employers to employ – which they have to do to increase revenue – the more full time employees there will be.
Unfortunately, you only think of the distribution, not the actual creation of the funds. That’s why we are in debt, and of course the logical conclusion is that 50billion goes to 100 billion which then becomes 200 million, which then becomes 300 billion and then expands to 500 billion.
Eventually, the country’s revenue goes to servicing debt and things start to get tight; bandages in hospitals, new ambulances, grants to the CSIRO, educational tools and wages for teachers, classrooms, air force requirements…Banana republic.
Liberals want the same things. You are no cleverer. It’s just that we realise that Norway and China want their usury for the debt and that’s why it’s better to do a bit at a time, otherwise it’s like having a shop (say a small art gallery) in one of Frank Lowy’s Shopping Centres. You work your arse off for the landlord.
PS, I think that The liberals introduced pensions in the UK. Presumably, you copied them.
PPS, this is a bit boring. it’s like mine’s bigger than yours.
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I never think you are boring Carisbrooke.
What is boring and sad is the premise that because the Liberals are keen on letting the ‘market’ decide all, Australia has now found itself in the position of its wealth ending up in fewer and fewer hands. We have lost our wealth that used to belong to everybody. This has happened under the leadership of Liberal Governments.
As far as its debt is concerned, during the GFC crisis the ALP decided to guarantee all bank deposits together with a spending regime to try and avoid a recession which was engulfing most of the world. That’s were the debt stems from.
It worked very well and as has been pointed out, our resulting debt per capita is small, miniscule and if seen as a mortgage very affordable. It kept Australia at the top of the world and out of a recession.
I agree that GST should be higher, so should company tax, especially mining tax. Abbott is abolishing the mining tax.
Norway is selling its oil to the global market in the same manner as Australia is selling its coal, iron ore and everything else. Norway and its people enjoys the profits in free state schools, state hospitals and a generous welfare for all in need with full employment. In Australia those profits are enjoyed by just a few and we continue to suffer with creaking and out-dated infrastructures. That is the difference.
Socialism works. Capitalism does not.
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No, Carisbrooke, ..no. You should be asking, “Why joint mining operations were not set up here in favour of the Australian people?” We, the people of Australia, must benefit from our own resources instead of the US Corporations. This is a very important question that Tony Abbott must ask in the parliament; then find a solution and act on it. Do you agree? And if you do, why don’t you voice your opinion in these matters at the Drum?
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I do like Bruce Haigh! He suggested Tanya for leader.
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As you know, or may know, atoknow, I always watch SBS news. I can’t stand the commercial stations, because mostly, it’s all about fireman rescuing cats stuck up trees, The same with ABC, it’s more International, however pitched a bit parochially pour moi.
So here’s a tip. Sarah Abo, is on the 6:30 news now and she delivers with a je ne sai qua. Plus she’s Greeky looking. Syrian actually.
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SMH.
We published your comment: Ross Gittens.
There’s two economies; Labor’s , where the taxpayers money is divvied up amongst the people, until it runs out and The Liberal Economy, where they stimulate the economy to be able to pay for the first one.
Feet Slipper
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I’m spasticus autisticus
I wibble when I piddle
Cos my middle is a riddle
I’m spasticus autisticus
I dribble when I nibble
And I quibble when I scribble
Hello to you out there in Normal Land
You may not comprehend my tale or understand
As I crawl past your window give me lucky looks
You can read my body but you’ll never read my books
I’m spasticus, I’m spasticus
I’m knobbled on the cobbles
Cos I hobble when I wobble
Swim!
So place your hard-earned peanuts in my tin
And thank the Creator you’re not in the state I’m in
So long have I been languished on the shelf
I must give all proceedings to myself
I’m spasticus, I’m spasticus
54 appliances in leather and elastic
100 000 thank-yous from 27 spastics
Spasticus, spasticus
Spasticus autisticus
Widdling, griddling, skittling, diddling,
fiddling, diddling, widdling, diddling spasticus
Spasticus autisticus
I’m spasticus!
Spasticus!
…..
-Ian Dury
🙂
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I’ve read somewhere that you are also a football fan, Caz 🙂
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Castles, actually.
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Oh! ..So you are from London!
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Noooooo, Carisbrooke! Pay attention.
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Okay.. Carisbrooke Castle. You are from a very small island.
Do you speak French?
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Jules! …Of course! …It should have dawned on me eons ago. It is French.
So, tell me, Jules ..How long does it take you to go around the world these days?
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Do you like sea monsters ?
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Wrong as usual. Labor spends it on building things of consequence. The Libs just flog stuff off and generally do bugger all but distribute money to their pals and the well off. The rest of what happens is all in the mind – Labor in power often sees Capital go on strike but this time they didn’t. Complaints about the economy were all absolute rubbish.
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You’re being silly.
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Did you mean like this Vivienne :http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/beattieera-western-corridor-recycling-scheme-a-27b-white-elephant/story-fnihsrf2-1226718045362
Or the billions wasted on The health payroll system?
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I’m just trying to bring you down to earth from your haughty pedestal. You’re making the claims.
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Deafening silence unfortunately. Fingers in ears unless it’s an anointed topic. Sad really.
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You didn’t actually read what Ross Gittens wrote did you. The articles incorrect perceptions.
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I don’t know if the total value of Norway’s oil riches are more or less than Australia’s resource riches, but as they (Norway) kept control of the oil profits, Norway now has the WORLD’s largest pension fund. Norway has high wages and full employment. It’s biggest problem is it’s wealth. The country also has not privatised its hospitals and education which is free to all.
We have gone on a totally different tack and followed the US and it’s mantra on free markets.’
Australia sold its wares to the highest bidder and continues to do so. Norway is run by its people, here by Murdoch and the Twiggies and Gina’s.
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…and Palmers, and a few morons in the Senate…
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Gerard, half of the people in Australia is DUMMIFED with big LCD-TV screens, computer games, football and hot-dogs..oops!..I mean meat-pies, and V-8 racing-cars. They don’t realise a LARGE portion of our mining profit is going overseas to foreign corporations – mostly in the United States.
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Yes, but try telling Carisbrooke that and he goes off and goes on about how good cutting taxation is and stimulating the economy for the benefits of corporations who get more economic stimulus for even more benefits for the corporations.
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that just shows how little attention you pay to things gerDard.
I want a system of taxation like Germany and Scandinavian.
I’ve written that about 1400 times.
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Taxation!
What else do you want? Explain please…
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No doubt, in about 5 weeks time, Gerard, or Helvi, will write this again :
“Yes, but try telling Carisbrooke that and he goes off and goes on about how good cutting taxation is and stimulating the economy for the benefits of corporations who get more economic stimulus for even more benefits for the corporations.”
So, I’m just refuting it “once more”, however, this time, in advance.
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That’s not an answer.
Well, I will insist that you explain. What else do you want Liberals to learn from Norwegians besides taxation laws.
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Yes, It would be nice and interesting if we could hear direct from the horses mouth what Carisbrooke’s personal take is on his favourite political party . What is the ideology that attracts him to the Conservative Liberals and why?
I have put up on many occasions examples on economic and social levels what attract me to the general progressive labor ideology, both here and overseas.
Apart from Jules Carisbrooke making negative and unflattering remarks about Labor (or ALP) ,their ideology, aims and achievements, I have yet to read clearly and snappily his point of view why he thinks the Liberal ideology will do better or are a better option.
Perhaps a good example to start off with is giving us an example of an outstanding Liberal Conservative achievement that benefitted all Australians profoundly and deeply.
Go on, give it a go Jules.
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I have no plans to write a treatise (in this blog) for your benefit gerad.
As WM said at the beginning, the expectation is that bloggers put up opion for others to discuss and make counter points.
I have often asked or answered question to you and Helvi, without any reponse at all.
When I asked you and before what was so scary about T.A, the only one who answered was Emmjay, who nominated his anti abortion stance.
One of the general tenets of The Right is that we don’t feel that the government of the day has the right to incur massive debt. That’s one of the basic point of view of Edmund Burke. Not that I agree with everything that he wrote, however as an intellectual he stands head and shoulders above you. . .So there are far too many parts to ‘philosophical views’.
Recently, since I started writing in here, I have challenged – and set out in detail – some counter points to you and Vivienne’s points. She has stuck to here line about Tony Abooot (reimbursements) , and it hasn’t gone any further, despite me pushing it.. And even saying that I was.
You get plenty of chances, to answer, however you and helvi are silent.
It took me 4 years to get her to admit that she wanted ALL asylum seekers to be admitted here, if they turned up: that’s 40 million. Okay, I agree, only about half would attempt.
I believe that one should pay for what one gets. If we lived in a commune it would be different, because it would be an independent microcosm (still having to trade with the outside of course).
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Jules, I have explained to you time and again that neither Abbott nor his office pay for his air fares, travel of any kind, and, now, his security – all are paid for directly by the government. His allowance while travelling (it’s for accommodation/food) is something which he claims and is paid to him directly. All this in on the government website regarding members’ entitlements. You can’t refute facts. All MPs have similar entitlements.
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Again, you avoid answering the *main* question, Carisbrooke.
The question is not, “What are the best policies you can think of for a right wing Party in the government?”
The question is, “What attracts you to your political philosophy/ideology?”
It’s a very simple question. I know that sometimes the answer can be long but other times one can trim it down to one sentence such as, “I’m a selfish greedy bastard and keep your hands out of my hip pocket, Jack!”
So, let’s start again, and tell me: What attracts you to your political philosophy/ideology ?
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“The question is not, “What are the best policies you can think of for a right wing Party in the government?”
For the umpteenth time – Norway’s.
Gerard and Mark (under the guise of HP sauce – now made in Holland), keep promoting Norway, which is an example of a country doing everything that it should, when the government has money: something that is against the wishes of the antiquated union indoctrinated and infiltrated Australian Labor Party.
Norway is an example of creating the money, to do what you like.
They are extremely resource rich (oil, fish, ect) and set up joint state participation of some sectors of the resources.
Your arguments are self defeating if you want to keep quoting Norway, because it’s what every Liberal intellectual would like: to allow the wealth to accumulate to then buy the hospitals that are needed. Not the other way around; plunge into debt and then get hopelessly lost.
For instance it was The liberal party who increased their voting rights. And although they have had a variety of governments, guess has just been elected.??
They are also amongst the top weapons exporters, and although listed 14th in the world Norway exports a greater value (in USD) of arms than many of the nations listed in the top twenty according to Statistisk sentralbyrå (Norway state statistics).
So earn the loot, then distribute it, don’t do it the other wayaropund and stifle growth, or you will end up with a debt of $400billion – where there wasn’t one!
Well, what the fuck can you do with a debt? Answer: nothing, just pay it off.
And that’s the reason that there wasn’t much on the table for either party to play with at the last election.
I have made a note to Alpo, at the Drum (NT LPG blog), that maybe we should consider a joint resource arrangement in the the NT.
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Cazo, shut your ears so you won’t hear this!
Just heard this at the shops:
What do you get when you cross a bastard with a bastard?
Give up?
Tony Abbott.
I know, I know! Crude, crass and curly and totally unacceptable to talk of our PM like this but… hey, it’s a joke, Tony! Your turn to cop them now.
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Don’t worry, you’ve still got Kevin sitting in there somewhere.
Bram Stoker wrote about him.
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No, allow me to correct you there, Cazo. Bram wrote about another fellow. Someone who had fangs… oh, I see. You’re being Literary.
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Reith always looks as if he is straining to keep the sound of his flatulence inaudible.
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Well he is a Liberal, they are born with two bums.
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An article is open for comments at the Drum….
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hph, not interested in ABC anymore, I expected them to be unbiased, they are not….
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Accidentally just came upon it. Barnett sounds like he doesn’t like Abbott all that much and the same goes for Catholics. Only scanned it. Will be of interest when others comment. I’ve been setting up snake repeller solar gadgets, been to the tip, checked out all the voting figures in Indi, have prawns ready to make a curry for dinner. I’m fairly relaxed really. Considering.
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Bon appetit, enjoy it Vivienne. At least we knew what the result was going to be, weeks ago. Nothing is surprising there. Barnett is a senile old man, so 50s. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to what he says.
Helvi, My feelings exactly but let’s get in there and continue our struggle against conservative liberals.
🙂
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The story of Tony Balloon Abbott;
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🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
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When I see Kevin, Julia and Malcolm, I see real people, vulnerable, at times awkward ( Mal and Kev), even shy (Julia), they can touch you and it feels right, you feel for them, you care because they are real…
With Abbott, I take a step back, there’s something cold, lizard-like about him, not a person, whose hand I would want to shake, his gait is awkward, he opens his mouth, but the words have trouble coming out, babies and women are not drawn to him…
There is a hollowness to him, I don’t hate him, I don’t like him, he wakens no passions in me, not for the good , not for the bad, he does not really exist for me…
There is no goodness of the heart, no wit, no humour, there’s eagerness to win for the sake of it, there’s the smirk, and …..oh well, not a person I’d pick to be the country’s PM.
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I thought that he made you vomit?
We should know the result by 7pm. I think that Algernon the Firsts’ prediction of 20 seats will prove to be wishful thinking.
I keep being struck by The warmth emanating from Abooot and his lovely family. There’s no bitterness there, no faux sincerity, just love and empathy for fellow creatures.
Really we’re lucky that the country has thrown up such a man. What a refreshing change from the hard-nosed spinster, Gillard and the awful, awful Rudd – – Dr Death they called him Queensland, because he crueled the health service. Something that was compounded by Bligh and is taking huge resources and effort to correct.
He should apologise to Queensland and The Australian people for his campaign of hatred against Gillard and his divisiveness, priggishness and lies.
As Peter Martin, pointed out on The Drum TV, last night, he kept running outrageously fallacious lies in his ads about Abooot, cutting everything and big black holes – even after Fact Check pointed out that it was untrue. Nathan Rees, on the same programme seemed to agree.
Helvi’s post above shows just how the lefts’ minds can be manipulated into thinking that it was all true… Just as the preachers in the pulpit, trick naive parishioners into believing that there is an invisible, supernatural deity, which in turn leads to the indoctrination of their children – a most odious disaster for any child.
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A Catholic hair dryer
In parochial school, students are taught that lying is a sin. However, instructions also advised that using a bit of imagination was OK to express the truth differently without lying. Below is a perfect example of those Teachings:
Getting a Hairdryer Through Customs…..
An attractive young woman on a flight from Ireland asked the Priest beside her, “Father, may I ask a favour?”
“Of course child. What may I do for you?”
“Well, I bought my mother an expensive hair dryer for her birthday. It is unopened but well over the Customs limits and I’m afraid they’ll confiscate it. Is there any way you could carry it through customs for me? Hide it under your Robes perhaps?”
“I would love to help you, dear, but I must warn you, I will not lie.”
“With your honest face, Father, no one will question you.” When they got to Customs, she let the priest go first. The official asked, “Father, do you have anything to declare?”
“From the top of my head down to my waist I have nothing to declare.”
The official thought this answer strange, so asked, “And what do you have to declare from your waist to the floor?”
“I have a marvellous instrument designed to be used on a woman, but which is, to date, unused.”
Roaring with laughter, the official said, “Go ahead, Father. Next please!”
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We will just have to wait and see how warm and cuddly this Abbott is, in due course of course. Naturally I think the blind followers of the right are the manipulated ones but that is the nature of their DNA – it is like putty. Cheers Jules. I’m off over the border for the arvo. 🙂
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Give it a week vivenne, I wonder if he has the armada ready to strafe the asylum seekers as they attempt to get to Christmas Island by boat..
Lets hope the good folk of Indi purge some of the tory rubbish to today.
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Best of luck with your candidate Viv. We don’t need Sophie Barbarella. I’ll have a word in the right place – and cede Indie to you.
I did read up her bio after Gooey tabled it. She was in love I think, but then seemed to take advantage of her partner.
She seems admired in her party, but I guess it’s probably a fearful admiration…So, I don’t mind if she loses, is what I’m saying….Good luck!
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Viv, many thanks for all your hard work in helping Cathy to unseat that woman, the horrid Ms Mirabella….not so keen to watch Q&A anymore because the host Tony Jones’s rude behaviour…
If I do, at least I don’t have to put up with Sophie’s ever-moving mouth….
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Mike Carlton in the SMH summed up that revolting little man perfectly today and the completely dishonest campaign he ran Helvi. The whole premise of his campaign was built on a lie. After today he has to front the media with no minders or goons.
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I’m very shitty about ABC, for months Uhlmann and Simkin have referred to Abbott as our next PM; I’ll be giving 7.30 a miss…I don’t like bitchiness, I also expect ABC to be fair , unbiased, professional and civil…it’s going to be SBS or me…
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“Lizard-like”
Helvi, this is the best description of Abbott’s mind & soul.
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hph, the mind is muddled, maybe because of all that boxing; the words are not flowing easily from his mouth…as for the soul…God had run out of the souls when he came to creating Liberals, Malcolm was the last to receive one.
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And so the fun begins today! Got my Greens T shirt, my packed lunch, my booth kit, plucked up my enthusiasm, kissed and hugged Mrs Ato (an ineluctable ritual before entering the fray -or the fry) and am off for the day. Usually a bloody good one because the ALP lady is very funny and nice and we often give out each other’s cards when either goes off for a wee or a snag…
Hawthorn’s win last night bodes well for the Greens. Trust me, I know such things.
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Off to work like a Trojan. 🙂 May Zeus, or some more appropriate god(dess) go with you.
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Met a young goddess co-helper there. Only partially from Mt Olympus but a goddess nonetheless. Stunning body and mind. Spent a great morning with her.
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Be careful with your plucking, atohope.
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I came, I hoped, I left.
Hope still there.
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I bet none of you can claim Kevin Rudd gave you a call!
Neh, neh, neh!
He called me. Well, not in body, obviously, he’s far too busy and too perturbed at the moment to be bothered with such trivialities but in spirit and in voice through a recorded message.
“Hello?… Hello?… Hello?”
“Hi, this is Kevin Rudd…”
“Oh, hi Kevin, how’re they hangin’?”
“…and I’ve called to tell you that…”
“Yes, Kevin, I’m listening boy. Tell me.”
“…Tony Abbott… Tony Abbott… Tony Abbott… grrr… garrrr… gorrrr… bip…”
So I put the phone down having first uttered words that are too impolite to utter, even to write in a politely patronised pub like the Pig’s Dirty Armpits.
I really got taken in by the bastard.
Enjoy the day tomorrow. I’ll be at the Green candidate’s house, in the evening sharing some chicken sausage rolls I’ve been cooking all day today. Mrs Ato will be at my sister’s wondering how I’ll be coping with the results. During the day, of course, I’ll be handing out HTV cards and giving Anna Burke’s secretary hell. No, really, she’s a great woman. I voted in the morning and saw Anna at the booth. Looked exhausted the poor darling, so I didn’t tell her about my voting predilections. Chatted with her a wee bit.
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Polling just in shows Sarah Hanson-Young sure to win in her own right! Splendid news!
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