The Dump is:
For posting comments that don’t get up at the Drum, and for having a pleasant, mirthful or enlightening off-topic discussion.
It’s not for personal abuse of other commenters.
Please do that somewhere else if you must.
Play nicely or piss off.
However, why doesn’t a poster add a link for us to read and comment on here, much quicker. Maybe we can do a bit more bagging here, not that I speak for the moderators, yet.
NB: Being tiresome and boring, racist, sexist or just plain creepy is not playing nicely.
———-
The Pig’s Arms exists because a dozen or so years ago our other favourite playpen – the ABC’s Unleashed blogsphere started to go off. Like a sack of prawn heads in the sun. Something had to be done.
Moderation was taking forever. Comments seemed to be rejected randomly – outrageous ones appeared and reasoned ones were pinged. When they released the Drum / Unleashed ….. things actually got worse !
So many pieces from professional writers appear with no obvious merit. And the moderation has become, to put it frankly, appalling.
As a former contributor and a commenter, I was deeply disappointed at the plummeting quality from our pre-eminent media empire. And I resented so many challenging or dare I say, witty or funny posts in which we’ve invested seconds of our precious time – getting the chop.
So here, for all our benefit – is an open slather blog. Copy and paste your best rejected comments here for posterity. Does not matter whether you’re posting on the Guardian, First Dog on the Moon or wherever else.
And sprinkle pointers to the Pig’s Arms amongst your comments. Let’s try to rescue some of the old faithful.
Cheers,
Emm.
Window Dresser's Arms, Pig & Whistle 
Excellent article by Jon Green on the Drum about Rudd.
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I happened on this last week. As it happens on the day I was accused of being a sociopath.
It works in non-religious domains too. I’ve been thinking about humankinds tendency to anthologize, demonise and dehumanise others for disagreeing with them a fair bit lately.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2013/11/06/anger/
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Any chance of the link to where you were called a sociopath?
I think there is a very relevant difference between brawling and discussing and answering questions. Being goaded and taking the bait is another thing and it’s not brawling. Although with your own attitude you no doubt think this comment of mine is just brawling too. Sometimes I see your comments as not much different to throwing a bomb and then sneaking off. Not very friendly either.
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My hero!
http://scott-ludlam.greensmps.org.au/content/speeches-parliament/address-reply-abbott-governments-agenda
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“I always thought the arts were central to a country, central to a society, holding up a mirror to itself, celebrating itself. I think anyone who’s had an emotional experience with the arts gets that connection. If you haven’t had an emotional experience, you never quite understand that, you know. I had that. But at the same time, I had the working-class vernacular, the working-class mind. There have been polls – I could tell you what was in them before they turned up. I worked in that Sydney County Council in Sydney for the first six years of my working life amongst fitters and turners and labourers and, you know, the life was so raw and ribald, you couldn’t put it across on national television.”
Paul Keating
And now we have Abbott.
What a fantastic interview. We used to have Kerry O’Brian doing 7.30, now we Leigh Sales.
I wanted to hear every word Keating said, no mute buttons needed…
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There’s more to come. I found it fascinating.
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Mungo’s article is now closed for comment (I’ve been out shopping) – I challenged that idiot John’s assertion about 10% increase in rents and he told me to check out Westfield’s published info. I’ve just done that and guess what it says – they have REDUCED RENTS by 10%. New leases were reduced by 10% in June 2012 and they are looking at reducing them again by a further 10%.
Liberal supporters will say anything but mainly just lie. One can’t believe a darn thing any of them say including their MPs.
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Of course. There there, just relax. it must be so nice to be a perfect housewife. As you keep telling us; month, after month, after month, after month.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/island-escape-for-alp-deputy-tanya-plibersek-on-the-taxpayer/story-fnihsrk2-1226757860532
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Cazo, no, mate:
“Ms Plibersek’s spokesman declined to say why the Labor MP’s family had travelled with her. She is married to Michael Coutts-Trotter, director-general of the NSW Department of Family and Community Services. The couple has three young children.
“Tanya visited because she represents the residents of Lord Howe Island in the parliament, as it is part of the federal electorate of Sydney,” her spokesman said.
“Tanya’s visit included attending the ANZAC Day memorial service, an event with members of the Island’s RSL, an ANZAC Day function with the local community, a day at the community hall for constituents to come to speak with Tanya as their local MP about issues, a meeting with members of the island’s board and meeting with medical staff on the island.”
She also met with residents to discuss property and land matters, he said.”
I think the charges, in this case, were as close to legitimate as you can get. I hold no brief for any rorter, Lab or Lib but I think Plibs is quite OK by comparison.
New rules begin next July. Not that they are any less a bunch of rubbery rhetoric like the last lot, but let’s see how things progress henceforthwith.
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Look ato, I tend to agree with you. Plus I admire Tanya, considering her family workload.
I was really just being contentious, because I am sick of Helvi and Vivienne writing that ALL Liberals are lairs. I get this stuff day after day and get sick of it.
We are not all like Peter Slipper and your side is not all like Eddie Obied and Craig Thomson.
I don’t think that ever, in 5-6 years, have I written that all Labor supporters are liarss. How could I conscionably say that? Well, I couldn’t and never would.
The other point is that as you say, ‘new rules are coming into play’…So I was pointing out the vagaries and the difficulties that ‘have’ existed, with quantifying expenses.
…………………………………
I’m fine with someone picking on Abooot, or Morrison and calling him out on a specific lie, or even generalising about The Liberal tenet, which I know is not yours, or anyone else’s.
However, I despise silly phrases (and words like Adolph ect), where the English language could have been used. If you want to be nasty, at least let me enjoy the sweet prose of belligerency and concrete descriptions 🙂
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What like the PM calling the leader of the Opposition “Electricity Bill” have a light bulb moment.
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Yeah, like that. I thought it was puerile, didn’t you?
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And this… http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-12/the-collected-insults-of-paul-keating/5071412
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I’d expect better of a PM, especially in a press conference.
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Why? …Whether the Treasurer wished to go to there or not – I would forbid him going to the Senate to account to (those) unrepresentative swill. Keating
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Keating, ALP :I am not like the Leader of the Opposition. I did not slither out of the Cabinet room like a mangy maggot.
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Keating, was The Prime Minister of Australia.
.
AND, I bet that you voted for him?
Never mind the point is proved. Back to DWTS .☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼
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The comments were made out of the parliament. Keating made his inside. Keating at least would say it to their face. The PM says most things under his breath in the Parliament hoping it won’t be heard except by those he’s trying to bully.
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Keating was more of a PM than Abbott will ever be Jules. Keating was also 17 years ago. Never mind you don’t get it anyway. I’ll go back to sponging of the taxpayer will I.
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Oh I get it all right Algernon ®.
Four legs good, two legs bad.
Yes I get it absolutely. You never will.
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This is what I was saying about halo effects the other day. In this forum general put-downs of Liberal supporters are acceptable. John is an idiot. Keating is excused for his aggression. Abbott is excoriated.
I truly find it remarkable that people enter a forum like The Drum call a group idiots, or sociopaths or incorrigable buggers or whatever and then maintain ,nay, BELIEVE they are aloof of aggressive discourse. I find it remarkable (say) they decry agression and consider themselves progressive feminists then stand mute when Bob Ellis calls Liberals ‘c-nts’.
The people in the offended group will take it personally. And search your hearts. You MEANT for them to take it personally.
Here I see Jules ceeding points, trying to find middle ground. I don’t see his oppenents doing the same.
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Well,
you can always say something kind in ‘Grandparents Grand Wedding.’ I notice the studious avoidance of remarking on something away from the personal snarling and sniping.
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Sea Mendez – abuse to you is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve been very specific in calling out a lie from ‘John’ on the Drum – absolutely nothing to do with Carisbrooke yet he retaliates with lies about me and I did not hit back with any expression of offense. This halo you speak of does not exist.
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It is not the put downs on liberals or labs, it is the personal name calling and put- downs on Helvi this, Gerard that and Vivienne here, both here and on The Drum. Critique of issues initiated by political leaders is something different to dragging in personal contributors.
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gerad, you need to give examples. Anecdotal bluster is meaningless.
Do you remember when I gave a detailed analysis of yours and Helvi’s long and relentless campaign against Voice – accusing her of being sea mendez, and asked for an apology?
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Sea Mendez – I’ve often called Ellis out on some of his outrageous rants. One time he actually called me out as being a Liberal troll or something like that ! I didn’t see his use of c-nts – a word used by anyone anywhere anytime which I do and have always found disgusting. Ellis blows hot and cold in his commentary – he’s got problems.
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Sea Mendez – I think the ‘halo’ you speak of is permanently stuck on Carisbrooke’s head.
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Vivienne. Carisbrook brawls. You brawl. No halos.
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Carisbrooke. Gerard’s critique is apt. At least in part. My hobby is to show him that it also described himself.
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Quote: It’s not for personal abuse of other commenters.
It is meant (the Dump) for stuff about The Drum. I referenced a specific comment from ‘John’ and in return I get a bullying put down from Carisbrooke.
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In The Drum – this week – you wrote – in two separate comments: a)Cut the offensive crap WL. and
b)You excel at writing nonsense
You have called me a dickhead and many other names- and on this page you say that ALL Liberals are liars.
While you keep doing that. I will keep calling you a housewife.
So it’s your choice. Keep doing what you’re doing and you’re going to get the same result. The ball is in your court.
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I did not say ALL Liberals are liars. Your offensive remark was ‘Why are you so concerned about the boats? it’s obvious that you were not satisfied with the number of drownings.’ And this from you was nonsense ‘Your faux outrage at being caught out, does you no credit.’
Sorry if I called you a dickhead but in the context of our exchange about claiming expenses for volunteering you were in fact being blindingly stupid in rejecting my proof which has now been more than vindicated in the MSM.
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Yes, you did, actually.
Here: “Liberal supporters will say anything but mainly just lie. One can’t believe a darn thing ‘any’ of them say including their MPs.”
Never mind…my point is made. let’s start again.
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I didn’t Jules. I’ll just have to go on assuming that your comprehension skills are not much chop. That’s what you get from many Liberals who so often wrote JULIAR. Liberals do excel in hurtful slogans. And now we know that Abbott wanting dignity and an end to abuse in Parliament was also lying given that he did not take offence at ‘Electricity Bill Shorten’ which immediately received the approval of Madam Speaker Bishop. Slogans are not a definition of good government.
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So what does, ALL, mean?
I thought that it meant ALL. Doesn’t it mean, ALL, anymore?
Wow, I’m out of here for some fresh air and lucidity.
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PS. I never wrote Juliar. My literacy is superior to that of slogans. And “bad’ personal abuse.
I condone humour though, and The Rabbit, or The Abbott, makes me chuckle.
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This is getting rather tragic but now I have to assume you can’t read either. I did not use the word ALL in my post above.
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Lying is infectious.
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Tomorrow is Abbott’s first day of a walk to his doom.
http://thehoopla.com.au/misogyny-speech-song
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-11/an-inquiry-into-missing-senate-papers-to-begin-this-week/5082714?section=justin
What chance to they have of sorting that out, with Simcard Keelty, the bastard who hounded Dr. Haneef, an innocent man.
Keelty was forced to resign.
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Did I hear right that out of the goodness of Australia’s heart the donation to the Philippines towards disaster relief is $ 400.000.-?
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400,000 immediate dollars with the possibility of more to come.
By way of comparison. The Japanese government donated goods to the value of $AUS490,000.
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To be fair, Australia has tipped in $11.000.000
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The Liberals spend more on going to weddings and rugby matches…
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$400K!. Struth you could have passed the blanket around and pulled in more than that.
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Can’t even find a mention of it other than in here.
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Now found it but it is what heard before regarding mozzie nets and blankets and water containers. They might need a bit more help. This was not Howard’s way. Abbott is not the love child of Howard and Bronwyn. He’s some bastard though.
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Abbott makes nostalgic for Howard days. Abbott is unique in very own cruel ways.
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makes me
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bloody hell another word left out: in his own very cruel way.
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Ha,ha. Good one. 😉 It seems a bit mean.
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I shouldn’t have gone looking for it – also found a Russian artist nailed his testicles to a road in a protest !
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One can never nail testicles enough.
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To be fair, Australia has now put $ 11.000.000 in the plate for the Philippines.
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Typical Tony.
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I just checked the ABC’s poll on this: most people want more money given to Philippines. I agree, so many people have lost everything, I could hardly watch the devastation, bodies everywhere…
Thank god Australian people have hearts, Abbott was shamed to giving more.
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Just cruising through and noticed that you scored another inanity, Helvi.
” Abbott was shamed to giving more.”
How do you keep doing it? Scoring own goals.
What has shame got to do with our government’s contribution? You do write some baffling tripe sometimes.
Sometimes I wonder at the sense of trying to blog in this highly politicised bog. Yes bog.
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An Open Letter to the thick Oak!
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It is brilliant – my thoughts and many of my words. Victoria’s piece is bookmarked.
Bob Ellis has written a similar but shorter article on IA.
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And Politically Homeless Andrew Elder is also writing on this.
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Now ato are you talking about Oaks size (he is a wide as he is tall) or his intellect.
What Keating said is so apt.
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Tall, fat and thick!
Brainless, heartless, loveless!
But this is not to take anything from my beloved noble tree!
I love oak trees! Many a great thought was inspired by its broad, cooling shade… even to me!
But Oakes? It’s an antonym!
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I wasted 10 minutes reading that fact free vacuous article and the dumb fawning comments.
Apart from never getting out of 1st gear, it was a naive use of inappropriate nouns and adjectives, tailored for the sycophantic blog followers. The dumb leading the dumber.
It wasn’t a refutation, but a childish rant. More befitting of a year 6 essay.
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Sorry to see you wasting ten minutes of your life, Cazo but surely you could have worked out whether reading the whole article would be a waste of time after the first minute?
Don’t get political commentary upset you that much. One lot says a bunch of crap and then the other lot says its own bunch of crap. A sentence here and a sentence there might redeem the author but by and large, politics is about biases.
I hope all went well with mother, mate.
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Thanks ato. The funeral was last Thursday. We all wore a bit of red – my mother’s favourite colour. My sister tied red bandannas around her 3 retriever’s necks.
My brother from Paris got over in time to hold her hand.
My brother from Sunshine coast and his twin daughters were there. My daughter and Sydney based son were present too, of course.
We had champagne an oysters at my sister’s house afterword. Mumm champagne.
I was tempted to have one glass, however toasted her in soda water lime and bitters.
Back on the coats today. There is a mild thunderstorm here. which is why theu have abandoned the PGA golf. None of you would have watched anyway, I’m guessing.
All in all, a turbulent week. However peace for Mum, now.
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Peace, indeed, Cazo!
Glad the family got around her for the final greeting.
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Pleased to hear it all went well.
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My condolences, Julian.
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Carisbrooke, our condolences at your Mum’s passing…
Here’s the last verse of Auden’s beautiful Funeral Blues
“The stars are not wanted now; put out every one,
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun.
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood;
For nothing now can ever come to any good”.
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One of my brothers read it at the funeral.
The other brother read a poem that he wrote about red shoes and the fact that my mother had travelled a lot. She loved red leather shoes. They took her to many lands.
It all went as well as one could hope
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Sounds like she had a peaceful death, that’s about all any of us can ask. Hope you are OK.
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I’m glad you had a lovely mum. You should have good memories.
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I’m OK, thanks Big. The emotions hit me at the funeral. Being the eldest son there were some early memories of living in a Nissan Hut in The New Forest, that came back, when I tried to read something. happy memories of course, because when one is poor, one doesn’t know. Well didn’t know. However one does now I suppose, with TV showing how others live.
There were some issues with a nasty registrar and some perceived anomalies with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Care_Pathway_for_the_Dying_Patient
I won’t go into it here, as it is too personal to my family. I mention it because you are in health care, and might understand it more than others.
Really one has to understand that there is a life cycle, that’s being going on for millions of years.
Don’t waste your life complaining about other people and what they are doing. Be realistic and help the ones that you can.
Continual carping, makes one look bitter, twisted and ungrateful of even drawing a breath. It also has the effect of negativity in others.
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Cariz, I’m sorry to hear that your mum, and your family, had some difficulties towards the end. I am completely out of touch with care of the dying adult, as care of the dying neonate is completely different, in that, the patient has never attained the cognitive skills to comprehend, formulate or communicate decisions around death.
I still hope that your mum was pain free, and that you all spent some time with her.
Nissan Hut in New Forest, sounds like the stuff of novels.
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Carisbrooke, so both you and Gerard have had the Nissan Hut experience; you are brothers in arms… 🙂
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http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/27332.html
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Ha! I started recycling in my head then I thought of that too so didn’t want to replay here.
Being the eldest I sometimes have the experience where siblings don’t have common understanding – having either been too young to experience or so young their experiences are superseded by more recent conditions in their memories.
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http://www.newforestnpa.gov.uk/news/article/466/dan_snow_unveils_the_people%E2%80%99s_story_at_new_forest_world_war_ii_exhibit
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The Nissan hut experience is not easily forgotten. I wasn’t aware that in England people also lived in them. We only spent a few weeks in them but being 15 almost 16, I clearly got the shock of heat being radiated from the roof which curved down almost to the road. There were crusts of bread in the drawers and mum thought the hut was to store our bicycles. The Dutch and bicycles are one I think.
Glad to hear your family were able to make it in time.
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Gawd, young folk trying to grow up in the middle of bomb testing, and landing craft and god knows what. sounds awful and wonderful, at the same time.
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Sounds like you mistakenly logged on to Bolt’s column. I wouldn’t waste much time there either.
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Or perhaps the Ackermann blog
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Bolt, I know of, Ackerman, I don’t.
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I only wasted 2 minutes – and not by speed reading.
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Hey! I cant believe you guys aren’t having a crack at the ridiculous ‘no comment’ interview Morrison and his tame general gave yesterday. And how about stop the boats Tony stop the boats Abbot’s stop the boats interview?
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Probably because having a crack at a no comment or all this secrecy would quickly become very repetitive and boring. I’m waiting for the MSM to get worked up about it – shouldn’t be too much longer. A few have raised the secrecy matter (Crabbe for instance said ‘If a boat is turned around, and nobody is told about it, did it happen at all?’) but it is all on a simmer as far as I can tell.
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I’m posting this bit from me and another on Paula’s Drum article. I’d be interested to hear the Pub’s opinion:
Stuffed Olive:
08 Nov 2013 9:12:45am
Julia Gillard always answered questions even when the same one was asked umpteen times. I always watch Question Time and I am looking forward to next week. It should be a doozy. Unfortunately I am sure that Bronwyn Bishop will be a dreadful Speaker and do her best to shut Labor up. It might be a riot.
Alert moderator
C Ash:
08 Nov 2013 10:11:35am
SO, you are either a liar or suffering from short term memory loss, Gillard very rarely answered a question, she always went off on some tangent saying how well the ALP where doing and how she would lead them and win the next election. She was usually rude, patronising and played the poor me gender card. The reason that was continually asked the same questions was because she never answered the question the first time or any other time, the investigation into her conduct re union slush funds is still ongoing and if she appears in court she will have to answer questions, then she will have nowhere to hide.
Alert moderator
Stuffed Olive:
08 Nov 2013 4:42:37pm
I don’t tells lies C Ash and your response would be THE most inappropriate one I have ever received. Hansard is all you need to check the truth assuming that you never really ever watched Question Time because your words are just Liberal slogans and repeating a lie about an investigation (it’s not happening). Gillard’s problem was that she was always polite even under extreme provocation.
I suggest you tune into the ABC next week and everyone can discuss performances after the show.
Alert moderator
C Ash:
08 Nov 2013 6:35:40pm
SO, many of your posts are inappropriate, rude and abusive so if you wish to be treated kindly and politely you should treat others in that way, since say you do not tell lies, I beg to differ, many of your posts are far from factual or truthful, then perhaps you suffer from short term memory loss. I note that you did not mention that, you probably forgot to.
I watch question time quite often as it happens and I recollect Gillard being very rude and patronising, while playing the gender card for all it was worth, funny that Thatcher or Merkel or Hilary Clinton to name but a few never had to do that, that’s because they all had something to say and contribute, unlike Gillard who way out of her depth.
I suggest you get over your pique and accept that Gillard was not a good PM.
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I did notice this yesterday but was too late to post a reply. I suspect that C Ash could be a Liberal party staffer by the way they answer, at no time did they answer your post rather they relied on the ad hominem instead. Most of their comments are made up or of a similar theme to most the tory commentators at the Drum.
Lets see how Labor goes during question time this week, lets see if they can exploit the rich vein of incompetence by Adolf et al has displayed in the last two months.
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Many posts came up long afterwards and I missed much of the ensuing discussion. The Drum’s long delays are really frustrating. It’s one thing to get stuck into each other a bit but I thought C Ash’s description of my posts was hysterical. That small group of regular posters of lies defy description.
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I agree, Some are that stupid they defy belief. Alfie is a favourite of mine, incapable of original though came up with something about rewarding the richest of superannuates, It was something he’d been waiting for. He then promptly got set upon by about 60 posters.
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I saw the exchange, and thought ;keep the bastards honest…the Liberals come up with so much bullshit, on the Hazing blog someone dragged asylum seekers into it, the mind boggles.
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I only read it at about seven p.m…..bloody work interfering with blogging!
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I read at work at lunch but have to wait till I get home. Same problem for Big. You know between the long lunches and coffee breaks that we who work in the government sector are so famous for apparently. Not to mention the skiving as well.
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I work at home – currently doing transcribing of many interviews for social scientist. I take breaks and pop in to the Drum just to annoy myself.
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My comments weren’t directed at you vivenne. More in line with types like C Ash
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I didn’t think they were Algy. Just letting anyone interested in knowing a bit about my day ‘at work’. When I worked as an employee there was no internet !
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May I offer a non party booster perspective? C-Ash went ad-hominen. I also thought his(?) response was disproportionate. Way over the top. To use another technical philosophical term; he’s a major jerk. I like Stuffed Olive. I don’t like C-Ash.
Now I’ll criticise you both from my non-partisan perspective. You were trading specific truth claims on subjective matters. I would prefer you each preface your points with, ‘I think’ or ‘it seems’ or something. I find that frustrating when you party people lock horns.
The other problem is that you deal blunt criticism but take it personally when your opponents do the same. I also perceive halo effects. A general put down of snivelling socialists or sociopath tories is either an outrage or legit depending on ones loyalties. Again personal attacks and who-started-it can also be subjective. C-Ash hints at a history. You’ve upset him in the past. He’s taken something(s) personally.
I’ve copped it all round. I criticise Liberal crony-capitalism in the form of rewarding the rich through the tax system. I cop an OTT snivelling socialist sneer, even though I seem to be advocating a market capitalism outcome. I’m criticising from the right.
I challenge a lefty from the left on anti-racist, anti-sexist and anti-nationalist grounds. I cop an OTT Alan Jones loving, uncreative, Sweden-hater bashing.
So next time a try give each of them a touch up. My perspective: they started it. Their pespective: I started it. Totally subjective.
So I dont know if you’re arguing for censorship of C-Ash. On a strict technical reading he should be. But it’d be such a boring place. If they were fair they’d be censoring everyone. I think they’ve also got to make allowances for the fact that most people will take a bland contradiction personally and things will escalate. Thats just what humans do. I feel I have a better perspective on this because I’m not prone to political halo-effects. Ive got no horse in that race. Although I’m certain Im prone to other halo-effects, Im not saying I’m some kind of super-human.
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“Im not saying I’m some kind of super-human.”
Thank god for that. I’d be forced to jump in and write something.
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An interesting comment Sea Mendez. You too however (after the compliments) fall into some odd assumptions – I didn’t take it personally (I never responded to his second rant about me) and the subject of censorship never enter my mind (so why yours). The exchange is an example of how far from reality some people can get when the proof is to be found in Hansard. I can’t say ‘I think’ or ‘it seems’ because in this case ‘I know’. Do you watch Question Time? One of the features of QT became Abbott (or Pyne) moving to suspend so much of standing orders so he could rubbish Gillard for half an hour uninterrupted. This meant that QT was cut short time and again. A complete abuse of QT which I thought should be entirely against the rules. It was only ever used for some dire emergency. Lastly, I can’t remember any particular ‘clash’ with C Ash, at worst I might have called him ignorant or a nincompoop. My comments are usually a sentence of two, a paragraph at most and certainly never a rant.
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Another thing Sea – in response to your analysis may I suggest you read the full thread on Paula’s piece – it’s at the top, you can’t miss it. I think (how’s that!) that your perspective (appreciated as it is by me) would be on solid ground if it looked at the whole, not a part.
I do think C Ash was hysterical (in any sense of the word) when he got on to Merkel and Clinton (I’ve not caught up with her QT answers !!).
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Viv, your posts are never rude, but you tell it as it is, you don’t lie or fabricate, C Ash and many of the others from the Liberal side of politics just say anything, total nonsense, lies, and plain Liberal party speak…there very few Liberal comments I actually read anymore…
Of course, Carisbrooke, I always read yours, we used to be friends after all 🙂
Someone dragging poor asylum seekers into hazing, was the last straw , pure nastiness…
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Simple question Helvi. Is labelling Liberal voters sociopaths nasty?
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I have friends, some very dear, who vote Liberal, I lived on a farm among Nationals, they became friends.
I have never judged people by their voting habits. If someone is sociopath or not, they are that no matter who they vote for.
The Drum blogs are mainly political, and you always get the one against other fights, rather boring. I have not found anyone too neutral there, those kind of people do not go there. In my humble opinion there are more intelligent posters on the Labor side, on Drum that is .I talk politely on the Drum with some Liberal posters, they reply in kind, we differ in our opinions and that’s fine. Some are not the brightest and spout Liberal party line without understanding anything, I suppose C Ash and Alfie are like that….others?
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Strangely enough, Sea Mendez, the idea that you might be some kind of super-human hadn’t occurred to me. But should I ever be in danger of it popping into my head, I feel forewarned.
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So two women walk into bar and talk about the Bechdel Test…
Was Pobje a bit dismissive about the Bechdel test today? ‘one of the most useful inventions ever for people who have run out of things to argue about’ I think its more useful than that. Fenixius has it right if you ask me.
And thank God for Americans and their invention of the Bechdel test. Truly they are the salt of the earth!
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I missed that article.
What an excellent rule of thumb for gender balance – if there are women who talk to each other and about something other than a man. I like it.
Fenixius did sum it up succintly, if boringly. I wonder what “Fenixius” refers to?
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Zeus save us! Another TV “drama” on Julia!
Bloody hell! The tele has now completed its transformation into Dante’s nine circles of suffering! All the way from Limbo to Treachery!
http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/19738476/rachel-griffiths-to-play-gillard/
Rachel Griffiths is to play Julia Gillard in a new Australian television drama.
The Melbourne TV production company WTFN has acquired the film and television rights to Kerry-Anne Walsh’s book The Stalking of Julia Gillard.
Richard Keddie, whose previous credits include the TV bio-dramas Hawke and Curtin, will produce the feature-length TV drama, WTFN said on Friday.
The book tells the story of the decline and fall of Australia’s first female prime minister and the media’s role in that and the resurrection of Kevin Rudd, the man Gillard had toppled.
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I think it’s sick.
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Humanity is losing its geniuses. Aristotle, Hipatia, Newton, Einstein are all dead and I’m told I look rather pale today. No wonder donkey’s bum, Howard can get away with representing Oz at a conference on climate change… Someone teach him the meaning of the word “agnostic”, for Zeus’ sake!
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Quick, get that kourabiethes recipe with the crushed roasted almonds down in writing.
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AND my Greek shepherd’s pie! AND my stuffed peppers! AND my olive pickling!
But it’s OK, Mrs Ato (No2 Genius in charge) will see the world doesn’t miss out on a dionysiac feast!
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Ato – the Libs and the deniers learnt a new big word a year or so ago and they have to keep using it in case they forget it, so they bung it in anywhere now except the right place. Tragically the dictionary does allow scope to use it willy nilly. I’ll not forget Howard as a 16 year old being asked what do you call a tree which loses its leaves in winter – his answer: ‘a shedding tree’. He didn’t know the answers to the other questions either.
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I had a brain MRI todayay. Don’t worry they assured me it came back negative…
Bloody torture.
A couple of weeks ago I intervened in a road rage incident. Talked down three violent blokes and coaxed them to go on their ways. Ice cold. I have that in me. Get past my emotion quick and function. I’m proud of it. It’s important to me.
Stick me in that bloody tube for half an hour and tell me not to move. Gotta say I came very close to panicing. Like real close. Like real panic. Like run for your life panic. Bloody torture!
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Negative. No brain?
Just had to get that one out of the way.
It occurred to me when you mentioned it earlier to wonder how recently you had acquired a cardiologist, but it seemed intrusive to ask.
I have come so close to panicking during a procedure in which I had to keep completely still, although in unbearable pain at the time and having no idea what they were doing. It is remarkable how well it can work to talk about something completely different (the doctors kept talking to me about my children) and then when I told them I was about to lose it, to take slow deep breaths. I now have a lot of faith in slow deep breaths.
Now I’m going to tell the (short) story about a rugby playing friend who was concussed during a match and had a precautionary brain scan. When the report came back his brain was “normal”, his mother hung it on the wall. 🙂
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I can empathise…had one six years ago, including MRA/MRV (studies the major veins and arteries), which involves bolting (yes, bolting) a neck cage around one’s lower jaw and neck. Suffered intense claustrophobia, which was only made worse by the statement, “Hold still, we’ll just run another sequence!”
Glad your noggin is OK.
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BM, Gez had to go in one of those tunnels when he had ‘sleeping sickness’, thyroid problems….I’ll rather die than go into one of them…on one camping trip I had to sleep at back of a Combie van, I kept all windows and doors open, let the rain and mosquitoes and my head out….
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Rain IN, my head OUT.
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The negative result was joke, Voice. I already made it!
We get some occasional very-nasty migraines in the Mendez family. Every 5 years or so we need to have a battery of tests to rule out T.I.A. or stroke. So far I know (again) my cartoid arteries are clear, I dont have any clotting tendency or scarring on the brain.
I’ve got to get on top of it anyway (even if anything more serious is ruled out) there’s a correlation between migraine and TIA/stroke in long run. Sometimes migraine can bring on the latter, Im told, there’s a fine line.
The nurse told me coughing and ‘breathing’ could cause my head to move. I suppose talking was out too. Maybe he could have been little clearer on the breathing thing. I ended up distracting myself from the bits I desperately wanted to move by rythmically tapping my thumbs.
Shout out to NSW health BigM! Love ya work! I got that right I hope. Seem to recall Newcastle Hospital or something. I read on the wall yesterday some scans can take 90 minutes. I hope yours wasn’t one of those.
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I was just checking, SM.
Anyway, another thing they did for me was that someone in medical garb held my hand. I also have a lot of faith in hand-holding.
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Click to access The-Kentucky-Derby-is-Decadent-and-Depraved.pdf
🙂
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Bloody Nokia doesn’t come with a pdf reader. I’m guessing from the words decadent and depraved its a celebration of what a great time can be had at the Derby.
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http://thehoopla.com.au/time-punt-melbourne-cup-holiday/
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QandA. Germaine Greer. Don’t know if she was answering the questions so much as running through prepared one liners.
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But whatever it was she was doing, she was doing it brilliantly! Shat all over Hitchens… not that this was much of a task! Fantastically engaging show tonight and for once Jones kept his mouth shut!
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I generally dont watch it cause I hate rehearsed political responses. I tuned in because there were no politicians tonight.
I don’t know that she did get the better of him. A few of her prepared one liners attacked him for positions he did not hold.
Bear with me but I did find something to admire in Hitchens. He’s an old fashioned conservative. He correctly identifies that most modern conservatives are sell outs. They are willful conspirators in the radical experiment that is making society a servant of the economy and corporations. A true conservative should be worried by that radical change. And the tendency of large corporations to displace traditional sources of authority. He did have crack at Murdoch.
I did find his idea of pathologising disagreement interesting. I also felt it was apt that Dan Savage threw the accusation back at him.
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Greer didn’t even make sense and the gay guy couldn’t keep his mouth shut. Typical rude American. Hitchens flogged them all.
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Hungie, I did not know that Peter was Christopher’s brother, but I liked him( even if he was a conservative), he was sharp, with- it and NOT rude, the young American tended to overshadow (shout) over everybody, maybe that’s why Sarah did not get a change to say much. Jones gave more time to Germaine than Sarah, and did not tell the young American to take it easy…
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chance , not change
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I found the yank rude and sarah not saying much. Her comments about being wrapped up in cotton wool , I agree with. The problem for Hitchins was that Tony Jones continually talked over the top of him. Greer was her usual self.
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I’ve only gotten thru the first quarter of an hour so far. Greer, Hitchens and Dan Savage are all articulate and have made good points. Their philosophical frameworks are all strong in the areas of particular personal importance to them. If they were allowed to talk to each other it would be interesting. So far the only occasion has been Hitchens replying to Savage, and he just tried an ambit dismissal (rudeness accusation) and Jones cut off the reply before Savage could force Hitchens to address his actual point.
One of Jones’ big problems as a compere to me is he doesn’t distinguish between argument (you are a meanie stinker) and argument (here are some articulate reasons why you are wrong about this). He never lets people explore where their frameworks clash, so all you ever get is the prepared statements based in the areas where their particular life philosophies are on the safest ground.
The other woman appeared to me to be drunk. Not a good look on a panel program.
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Oh, the other thing Jones does is a bit the opposite – he kind of reduces peoples’ articulate positions to the point of absurdity and baits them. But it would be good if he’d let thoughtful, considered people explore areas where their philosophies clash.
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I don’t think so Voice – the other woman was a bit gobsmacked at what she was hearing. She is a Jew and had a very different view to Hitchens but didn’t get a chance to speak on that item. Still you have only watched a quarter of the show. Let’s know what you think of the whole hour’s worth.
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Viv, I totally agreed with Hannah’s comment about that today’s kids should be left more alone, not wrapped in cotton wool…if they are not allowed to do anything without parents hovering over, they will never attempt anything on their own, we should let them try things and allow them to fail.
They are driven everywhere, parents are seeing predators behind every corner
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Well not drunk as a skunk Vivienne, but tipsy I think. Perhaps just nerves. I see Jones came back not much later and offered to let Savage continue with his reply, so at least he was trying to let it flow a bit more. But the moment was well and truly past.
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Probably the best Q & A ever. It’s gone past the theme of politicians answering the (your) questions (half of them don’t) and having one poor hapless ‘other’ person there. They can have more of this anytime. Dangerous ideas people are so interesting and engaging and watchable. No-one can say anything against Germaine Greer as far as I am concerned. But it was a great panel. And, yes, thank goodness Tony Jones kept his mouth shut and did not just ‘let me interrupt you’ all the bloody time.
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Perhaps the most important question of the night:
Emilia Terzon asked: “As an Australian in her mid-20s, I have grown up with iconic images of protest, rebellion, and flower power from the 60s, 70s, and early 80s. Yet I don’t feel I’ve experienced any of this ideology in my lifetime. Most people my age seem more interested in buying the latest iPhone than protesting against unjust foreign wars or the corrupt global financial system. Am I correct to feel that I’ve been born into a particularly conservative generation? Were we born without the will to question or do we just have things too good to bother fighting?”
None of the panelists answered this question satisfactorily.
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hph, I thought the same, I like Germaine and she brightens any conversation, but she’s often keen to express what’s on her mind and does not always listen to the questions.
If there ever was a time for protests and rebellion, it’s now, all the silliness and secrecy of Abbott Government. I think Australia has become more materialistic, but I also think this country has become more divided: the well- to- do are happy to consume more and the poorer ones have not had much of an education to ponder about higher issues, and are just struggling to make the ends meet.
The young Uni students are the ones usually protesting, but they are now also more concerned about their chances of getting a job. There does not seem to be much of idealism among the population…
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Re: the uni students and the young generations.
Helvi in a world of fast technological advancement, it is not so hard to be overwhelmed by the flow of vast information. Children, as young as 5-year-old, now can use all their ten fingers on a touch screen of an ipod at an incredible fast pace that just by watching it I become dizzy. Unfortunately these children, as they are growing up, are conditioned to consume as much crap information as possible and as often as possible. The mantra these days is “self gratification.” Putting up a “selfie”, (boy, do I despise this term as much as I despise Dick Cheney!), on the internet and then following the response and then replying to numerous other crap throughout the day, does not leave enough time for a teenager to discover, for example, Victor Hugo and read and contemplate his ‘works’, to form an independent idea about Past, Present and Future. Every idea, good or bad, are readily presented and served to them through their ipods. They are not critical thinkers anymore. They have become the children of corporations as they are bombarded with commercials and brand names. All this while the family unit is frowned upon and is allowed to disintegrate. Strange how that woman on the QandA panel stressed the fact that those children should grow up with less parental care. Today, majority of parents are doing just that and yet I don’t to see a positive outcome. Give them as much free time as you like but they will spend it concentrating what is on the screen even when they are crossing a busy road. We are not breeding educated children anymore. We are breeding Consumers. Did you see the fat kids of the bourgeoisie in India at 4-corners, last night? The story is the same all around the World.
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Well my two daughters are very well educated and are not insane consumerists. They think a lot and you would love them as I do. But they don’t come from the ‘average’ household – parent-wise or environmentally. Most uni students are too busy working one or two casual jobs while studying and don’t have time to do much protesting. Times have changed. However, I do believe that overall the young ones are just tops and are far better than many ever give them credit for. Too much thoughtless criticism.
Emilia’s question proved that she was a great young person.
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Viv, your daughters are a bit older, I’m referring to the under twenties. Yesterday we walked with Milo through a very old local graveyard, there was a group of local private school kids sitting on graves and having some kind of picnic after school. When we walked back a couple hours later,there were wrappers of chocolate, empty hamburger containers, two bottles of wine, some cans of beer, all just left there for the council to clean up…. All very sad because they looked like kids who should have known better…
Our neighbour’s fifteen year old boy (private school) goes to gym every day in the afternoon, the gym is five minutes away, this a small town, yet he can’t walk or cycle there ,he has to be driven there and picked up afterwards…
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Seemed to me that people were saying the same things about young people ten or fifteen years ago. Actually people (but not me) have always been moaning about the young and what’s wrong with them. There have been slobs around for ages. It’s taken ages but I’ve noticed that people don’t throw much rubbish out car windows anymore.
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hph, ,I saw the 4-corners program, it’s weird how the Indian kids are so hooked on the McDonald’s rubbish. India is the place of good tasty food and the kids prefer tasteless chicken nuggets, salty bits of chicken, covered in some thick floury stuff….
It almost looks they are addicted to it, the eleven year old boy wanted to undo the tummy banding…America has a lot to answer for…don’t get me started on sugary drinks…bloody Coca Cola, I think they promote it as health and happiness inducing….
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Did anyone notice the absolute mess, the piles of rubbish left at the racecourse yesterday – left there by adults, not young ones. It looked pretty disgusting.
I still think Monday night’s Q & A was great in all respects. I want more of this – thoughts from real thinkers.
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Wikipedia will shortly be quoting a passage from my Andromache, on an article about Hermione and linking it to my site!
Just gave them my permit today!
But… of course! 🙂
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Didn’t some guy even more ancient than yourself have something to do with Andromache too? Turkishpide? Eurocentipedes? Some funny name.
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Just a very minimal role, Voice. Centipedes just bugged people, never did anything of substance like me!
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Off course, we all stand in awe of your fame and your self acclaimed notoriety. But…. what about a bit of support for this blog and have something to say and support a contributor (Algernon) who has done a hell of lot more than most, by putting up his musical pieces, week after week, year after year, both pop and classical.
Perhaps not enough ‘Zorba’ in the selection?
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Anyway, mate – congratulations. You must have put in a lot of effort so it’s lovely that it’s appreciated.
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Thank you, Voice, yes, lots of hard, demanding but absolutely engrossing work.
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Congratulations Atomou, your fame seems to be growing weekly (not weakly).
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Many thanks, Big one. It’s keeping me mightily busy but I feel wonderful. When one loves the stuff one toils over then it’s no toil at all.
The emails I’m getting show that more and more educational institutions are studying the classics. England was always into them but i am suddenly getting lots from American Unis, with some unique perspectives on various matters. Very encouraging and hopeful.
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Yes, life’s funny, I’ve just worked six 12 hour shifts, but seem to have the same sense of satisfaction, in terms of procedures performed, and difficult patients managed, as well as difficult parents!!
I guess you feel like father, nurse and mentor to your works.
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Well done Ato, an author of some repute. What next the government quoting you from Wikipedia.
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Many thankses, Alge!
Yeah, why not? I’m always quoting them, after all! “There’s an economic crisis! There’s an economic crisis! There’s an economic crisis! They’re illegal, they’re illegal, they’re illegal, climate change is crap, climate change is crap, climate change is crap… squaaaaawk! Hello cocky, hello cocky, hello cocky!”
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Listed to the Belgian on Lateline tonight, The Carbon Tax the carbon tax the carbon tax. He just sounded silly and out of his depth. then again those parrot qualities were there for all to see.
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The cassette recorder will be playing a major role tonight in Box Hill North.
Luther at 8.30 on abc
JFK: The Smoking Gun – Sunday 8:30pm on SBS 1!
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You don’t watch Elementary?!? Yet another good Sherlock Holmes adaptation IMO.
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Where’s that?
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On the tele, mate.
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Haven’t you seen any of it? I’m not sure it’s a good idea to watch the first one so far into the series.
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Your tele or mine? Mine only shows sophisticated stuff.
Commercial channels are not on our radar.
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Your loss. Closed mind, missed find. Enjoy the Teletubbies and Yet Another SE Asia Cooking Tour Show.
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Discerning mind. Commercial channels show commercials. I’d rather watch telly tubbies and bananas in pjs
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Make a cup of tea, stir the pot, unpack some dishes … it DOES wreck the flow though. I find it almost impossible to watch a movie on a commercial channel. But commercial channels do show some good stuff if you keep your mind and eyes open. Keep an eye out for Elementary somewhere else maybe. I’ve always been a bit of a Sherlock Holmes fan. This is a very original adaptation.
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I shall ask our pirate mate to see if he can download it from wherever he downloads his treasures. Ads don’t only break the flow, they infuriate me, so, to do justice to a film I don’t watch it.
I love murder mysteries and I’ve seen lots of Sherlocks. English ones. They are particularly good because they are uncluttered with overburdened plots as are, for example the Midsomer Murders or cluttered with unrequited love stories, as in Scott and Bailey or paranormalised with too much twilight zone nonsense as in the current Whitechapel, or fluffy bourgeoisie, like Miss Fisher.
With the English Sherlock we just get the thinking process and a fairly basic but adequate acting. Some bad violin which adds its own charm.
Incidentally and apropos Miss Fisher.
I am having intellectual orgasms at the moment reading through Greenwood’s “Medea!” What fantastic writing! Stunning research and an exquisite story telling talent. Intellectual orgasms yes, but that is not to take away from her lusty phraseology either. Here, she is a different writer, one who has either shed all pretenses that she can’t write anything serious (as so she wrote the Phryne series) or she simply graduated to the seniors. She is a seriously great writer.
I am waiting for her next leap into the world of writing plays. They will be masterpieces!
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Yes, Atomou, Greenwood’s Electra and Cassandra left me lusting for more Delphic women, but my lust has been unrequited. Is Medea still in print? I guess i could use the power of the interwebnet to find out.
The Americans made their own version of Sherlock, with an oriental female Watson…didn’t work for me, but the acting was appalling, so was appropriate for American audiences!
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Couldn’t buy any of them Big One. I found Medea in the local library and they said they’ll order the other two. Something about a new print with new covers is holding things up!
This one has me by the synapses… as well as by the short ‘n curlies!
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Before you request a p***** version, I should warn you it’s American. If you weren’t pre-disposed to allow for the possibility of enjoying it, it would be a waste of download time and bandwidth.
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Did you see the Richard Roxburough Holmes about 10 years ago? I thought he done good. I like him generally as an actor. My wife reckons I look like him so maybe there’s a halo effect going on there.
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No, I think I must have missed that one. Can’t remember. Sooooo, you’re that ugly, ey?
I’m uglier still… in a sort of George Clooney way. But what can you do? Ugliness, like beauty is in the hands of Fate!
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I saw Hound of the Baskervilles with Roxborough and enjoyed it, although not resoundingly so.
I have a particular soft spot for Sherlock, the relatively recent BBC adaptation, as their Sherlock reminds me very much of someone I know. I especially liked the first episode and how they repositioned it so seamlessly into the 21st century. Occasionally I find the later episodes too Moffatesque though – too much cleverness for the sake of it overwhelming the story.
It was quite arrogant of the BBC types to publicize they were watching the American (oh oh, I’d forgotten, the “A” word) version to see if it ripped them off. It’s a completely different take. Elementary is less interested in parallels with the books and more just takes what it sees as the essence of the Holmes character and that of Watson.
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This is better than Second Life, Atomou.
You know who I dont look like? Viggo Mortensen in Lord of the Rings. Couldnt work out why my wife was urging me not to shave my holiday beard after years of insisting I do. Then I remember our tour guide who DOES look like Viggo in LOTR. Gracious me! You’d think a Roxborough look alike would be enough!
Speaking of Clooney, has anyone seen Gravity? I dont think it warrants the rave reviews. Looks spectacular. Its worth it for that but the plot irked me a bit.
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Sorry think Id better point out (now that Im paranoid about being taken the wrong way) Im implying passive appreciation of Viggo look-alikes.
And when I say ‘taken the wrong way’ I mean… Ah forget it.
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It’s ok, SM, I’m the “wrong way” inclined!
Never saw any of the LOTRs so can’t tell if you’re cute or ugly.
Haven’t seen anything by Clooney recently either.
I’m leading a very cloistered life, I’m afraid!
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I am exceedingly pleased and relieved that Scott Ludlum has won the seat in WA. The results won’t be announced officially until Monday but they are already known by the candidates and their scrutineers.
Palmer, of course, will contest the count so we’ll just have to wait and see.
Anyhow, go the Greeeeens!
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With nearly 1400 votes missing and unlikely to be found, It will go to a fresh half senate election.
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Sounds like it might but it could be fascinating. All WA know the result of the election and have a chance to do something different. ??? It is not just one Rep Seat, it is big.
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They’ll thrive in it, those from WA. I would suspect the first three senate places won’t change in a re-election but the bottom three that’s different. The Sports party wouldn’t have a snowflakes chance the next time. It could well be a referendum on Abbott’s first 6 months. Given he and his government look like bunnies in the headlights as far as the first two months are concerned it will be interesting indeed.
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Scott Ludlam must be the most articulate, calm, cool and intelligent mortal on this planet! Here he is explaining the situation as clearly as it can be explained, despite Doyle’s excruciating interview!
So much more worthy to be our PM than any of the dross that is surfacing now!
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Oooops, meant to put up the link to the interview:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-03/scott-ludlam/5066400
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Scott Ludlam is an asset to the senate. I would suspect with the new election he would finish 4 or 5. There needs to be a new 1/2 senate election the result is too close and 1375 votes are missing those votes could throw up a different result.
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Folks, don’t miss the last two episodes of Catalyst! Compulsory, imperative, viewing!
Here they are:
iview on catalyst: cholesterol
http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76561611
iview on catalyst: drugs for colesterol
http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76561613
The revelations are astonishing: Cholesterol is bullshit! Statins are bullshit and create horrible side effects, including raising your diabetes!
I take both types of medication. I shall stop them immediately and I shall see my GP as soon as possible.
It reminds one of the tobacco companies who use to boast good health, then no ill health before a decently hearted scientist (working for them) revealed the true nature of the research conducted by his bosses, who then were forced, by a congressional committee to admit that cigarettes are addictive killers.
The criminal behaviour is conducted by these Big Pharma thugs is identical.
It’s a must for everyone to watch these two episodes!
A bit of exercise and a mediterranean diet does what these statins are supposed to do but they don’t. To the contrary, they are potential tobacco-like killers!
Watch them, please!
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Already watched them. Most interesting was the normal level of cholesterol in the body, good and bad types.
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And the horrible ill effects of the drugs, Vivie!
Results manipulation, Govnt’s copping out (by privatising) of their responsibilities in investigating these drugs. America is a country crapped upon by bastards.
All those moral crusades about sex and abortion and we get wars and killing drugs!
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Reagan got the ball rolling. I can only assume that in America they are prescribing these drugs like over the counter headache pills. I also assumed that the main thing here about cholesterol was to avoid foods high in it etc – through diet. It is good that the program stirred them up here and will be interesting to follow what discussion evolves.
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Can you play the guitar as fast as this young man? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx00BCUqI7U
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I looked fake to me – some techy trickery. Can he play fast doing anything other than what sounds like flight of the bumblebee? I am sure he is fast but looking at his hands and fingers it didn’t look right.
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No, that’s dinkum, Vivie. He has performed all over the world that chap. Well known around the guitar milieu.
Apparently he loves playing what someone called “sensitive jazz” I wouldn’t even know what that is.
In my baby years I use to go to the city to learn the squeeze box. It was a school owned by a stunning Italian guy who played the squeeze box just like this guy played his guitar. I was not his student… but I wish I was his daughter’s best friend!!!!!!!
Anyhow, Lou use to play this tune for us every now and then, when things were quite and we’d sit there in gob smacked. His right hand was a blur as it flew up and down the keyboard. It’s a lovely piece to my ears, a terifically imaginative work and if you see the music script your jaw will drop.
Lou would have us all in stitches with the various funny pieces he play for us or swooning with romance with other bits. You can imagine! Italian songs! Christ! I very nearly became Italian myself back then! That would have taught my father a lesson for buying me that instrument! I told him I wanted a guitar to swing my bum like Elvis!
Fathers never listen to their sons, dam it!
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I remember those fast accordian players on talent shows way way back. What is the point though?
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I was thinking that this might be more appropriate on the Dot. Then I realised that drums and guitars do go together.
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boompatiboom!
What’s the good of it Vivie? What’s the good of it?
Vivienne! I mean VIVIENNE!
The “good of it,” Vivie is that t is music. MUSIC!
Not only for listening but also for dancing.
Dance music for the agricolae, the villagers, after the harvest;
Music for the men to show their hairy chests and for the women their bouncy breasts and for the whole village to make babies and for all the babies to grow up and play more fast music after harvest…
Music to raise a sweat and a hormone, a lusty urge or two!
Music to separate the old men whose blood has curdled from the young men whose blood is on a constant boil, so that the young can do what is a young man’s duty to do.
Music to turn hay into a bed for love.
Music to slaughter a pig by and make sausages for the year.
Music to crush the grapes by and fill up the barrels for the year.
Music to dry the figs and nuts by to eat by the crackling fire during the coming Winter.
Music for the horses and the donkeys and the mules and the cows and the bulls and the wolves and the bears to mate by.
It is Spring Music and high Summer music.
Shakespeare was thinking of this very music and this very time of harvest merriment when he wrote his 12th Night, opening it with love-struck Duke uttering the unforgettable words,
If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it, that, surfeiting,
The appetite may sicken, and so die.
That strain again! it had a dying fall:
O, it came o’er my ear like the sweet sound,
That breathes upon a bank of violets,
Stealing and giving odour! Enough; no more:
‘Tis not so sweet now as it was before.
O spirit of love! how quick and fresh art thou…
Shakespeare without music would not be Shakespeare, just as his masters, the ancient Greek tragedians would be nothing without music (sung and danced by the chorus) and it was The Flight of the Bumble bee music that bounced around the inner walls of the pommy bard’s brain.
The French aristocracy, of course, wanted to distinguish themselves from the manure smelling peasants and so they invented ponsey music, the sort that Luis xiv (Sun King twirp) composed. Dead, ponsey for deluded poseurs.
But I won’t go on…
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Calm down Ato – I wrote “I remember those fast accordian players on talent shows way way back. What is the point though?” I did not ask ‘what is the good of it’. Those fast players I recalled were playing too fast to dance anything to ! Don’t lecture me on music – I love it and I also have a bronze in ballroom dancing (which includes cha cha and rock and roll). Does one ever dance to flight of the bumblebee? I used to be darn good at any Greek dancing as long as it was with Greeks (which it was).
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Calm down, Vivie, I’m not lecturing you!
Even though I used your name (about a hundred times) I was, in fact, lecturing the whole world about music. I, being the direct descendant of Bacchus and Terpsichore and thus the world’s most appropriate mortal to do so!
Not about the “dance hal”l music; not the “ball room dancing” but the bumble bee music which, like the Tarantella and the Zorba, begins slowly and picks up pace, tossing out the oldies and leaving the youngies to redden their cheeks and their genitals!
To spin and swirl and blast your soul out of your skin and burst your blood out of your veins.
Dance hall music is a passtime. Harvest music is a tradition, a culture, an even driven by the gods.
The “Bee” is Korsakov, of course but he, along with his four genre brothers worked for the “folk” creating “folk music”, music that emerged from the sounds he heard in the villages and the farms. To which he added the sophistication of a serious composer.
The music I was and am still talking about is of this sort:
Tarantella
Closing ceremony at the Athens Olympic. No wonder they’re still paying for it!
Zorbas: Birmingham Flash Mob (One Greek man gets them all to dance the Zorba)
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But all that wonderful stuff is way way way way WAY than the bumblebee.
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Not to my ear, Vivie. It’s earthy stuff. Glorifying Nature and the natural in us. THE most natural in us.
Perhaps I’ve spent too much time studying the roots of the ancient Greek chorus and arguing with Nitzsche devotees about that stuff. Imagine, a German and an insane one at that, trying to tell us where our music came from! But I doubt it. I doubt it was the time I’ve spent studying those choruses or Nitzsche.
Perhaps it’s the fact that I heard this music while still in my mother’s womb and began to miss it once I got here.
Don’t know.
But I do know I love a good piece of folk (village or tavern) music, folk song, folk story, folk art. They move me, compare to the other stuff, which I might well enjoy but not necessarily love. Probably why ballet and opera don’t excite me so much, though Swan Lake and Madame Butterfly tug at my heart strings.
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I can’t work out if we are agreeing or disagreeing and exactly about what. Night.
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Neither, Vivie.
We’re talking about different things, which is what I was trying to say but the verve by which I was saying it might have, perhaps, created some static to the message.
No probs.
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I wonder if he plays requests.
On the other hand have a look at what North Korean teenagers can do.
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Stunning stuff, Alge. I saw this tube a while back and discussed it with a couple of mates. One wonders with quite some trepidation what it took to get them to learn to play this so well. I hope they haven’t been tortured too much but I don’t know. Still, if they haven’t suffered too much in the process and it made them great musicians…
And the fears I have are not because they are N.Korean. The oppressive regime imposed upon kids is world-wide.
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Except its North Korea, Ato. Being a musician doesn’t make for anything it would appear. This “fine” example of NK popular music features the the former girl friend as well as the wife of the current despot. Apparently the “star” of this was sent to a gulag and killed
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I didn’t know about the gulag bit, Alge. Yes, it is NK, but it isn’t the kids’ fault that their govn’t is so brutal. They are kids. Full stop. Kids and whether by hook or by crook, whether by fear of love, they have achieved a great thing, which, were we to forget all the other stuff, we could enjoy for what it is: great music played by kids.
It should make us condemn their govn’t, not them.
Still, I have seen oppression of kids here, as well, by parents who are not NK but of almost any racial or cultural background. Enormous stress to excel which sends those kids into the grips of suicide. A lot of suicide!
It’s a bloody world phenomenon, alge! Love is trumped by the pressure to succeed. To compete and to succeed.
As a teacher you can see the precursors of despair and depression on these kids and you try to warn the parents, to show them the horrible possibilities but you can get some very nasty responses from those adults.
Kids are kids and all kids are our most precious, the most life-affirming, love-affirming beings.
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I wasn’t condemning the kids Ato, they incredibly good my fear for them is what will come of them. How true is your second paragraph and your last sentence, I was talking with my kids primary principal a few years back. There were kids being schooled 7 says a week as well as evenings. Completely dysfunctional socially. Had it with Juniors Cricket team as well where I was either coach or manager. Half of the them went to a school called James Ruse, no other school in the state gets anywhere near them for HSC results. Only one of them would I call balanced, all incredibly smart. The first person I ever hired was Chinese, really good at what he did but considered a failure by his parents for being a Surveyor rather than a Doctor or a Lawyer like his brother and sister.
Whilst my youngest no longer swims she had the potential to go all the way. In year 6 she swam against another girl with similar potential. It was a defining moment for both of them. Both at the time just loved swimming.Anyhow 100m freestyle event. The other the zone champion.youngest gives is about a body length behind at the turn. The second 50 she came back and beat her by about a metre. Youngest only ever swam for fun and friendship. The other child’s mother was ashen faced at her daughter being beaten. The kids just went off and played. A few weeks later at zone, the child turns up in a $300 skin, she’s 11 for goodness sake. For her the innocence of it all was starting to disappear, She managed to keep up other activities until last year and now her life is all swimming.
I know enough about the sport, its probably the most anal of all I’ve been involved with, for every kid that goes on to an elite level 10 will drop out. At least half of them will end up with depression. Many will find finishing their education, by their mid twenties when they finally retire many will wonder where their childhood has gone.
The girl in question is very good, nationally ranked, but will probably fall short of swimming at a world championship or Olympics. Going into her HSC year I just wonder how she’ll cope. I’ve seen a few others unable to finish theirs.
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And a couple more clips from Vahid Iran Shahi… and others.
(I’m the one on the left here.)
and if this doesn’t make you laugh then I don’t know what will!
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Just got interviewed by my 11year old neighbour. He had a huuuuge project to do on migrants. Recorded me on his iphone and his dad took a photo of us!
He had all 12 questions written down. I love question 8: When you came to Australia were you inmorphied? He said it mean “was it hard for you?”
“Oh,” I said I found the language a little difficult…”
My fame is spreading far and wide!
I feel portant!
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Just got a note from a fellow FB traveller. Apparently various functions cark it every now and then and resurrect themselves at their own pleasure. Part and parcel of social media, it seems.
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Yes, I’m frequently told that by people with software problems. Occasionally it’s even true. I always give them the benefit of the doubt – while I’m checking. Lets just say – apply basic problem solving techniques as you would with any appliance (but obviously with some Facebook specific common sense things to check). If Facebook DOES have intermittent faults, add that to the list of of things to be aware of. Don’t ignore your other common sense checks though.
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Sorry, Voice but you had me switched off completely with this exhortation: “Always assume the fault is with yourself, not them.”
Grrrrr!
Zeus help me, Voice! Please get back onto your medication tout de suite! There is an unquestionable prospect of the onset of some awfully debilitating unwellness coming on!
Assume the fault is mine? MINE? ALWAYS? MINE, Voice? VOICE?
I have never in my whole two thousand years made a mistake! Never, ever! And you want me to begin the inquest with that? It’s like telling a judge, “Your Honourness, let us begin this hearing by assuming -always assuming- that the reason that this man committed this murder is your fault…”
VOICE!
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My fault again! 🙂
That’s different really. I meant fault as in error, not blame.
With systems, usually assume the fault is with you. Then if it’s something you can fix, you will have the opportunity to do so. It’s a temporary hypothesis. People are fundamentally different because you’re not just talking error, you’re also potentially talking deception/greed/jealousy/take your pick.
The biggest problem people have with fixing problems is they attach emotionally to theories and invest personally in a particular theory being right. They keep proving their (incorrect) theories right again and again – by increasingly more bizarre means. Such as a certain handsome, intelligent, well-educated and infallible young gentleman proving something about the origin of Chaucer’s verse by reciting his verse in – whatever meter it was you recited it in.
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See ya later – off now.
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Nope! I do not like the words, fault, error, flaw, sin, mistake and any other synonym that lexicographers may wish to toss against my two thousand-year old unsullied name -hypothetically, theoretically, temporarily, tentatively or by any other adverb that lexicographers might wish to toss against my two thousand-year old unsullied name!
In short and in my briefs, I say without the slightest equivocation (I spit upon equivocators who are usually drunks on some sad Shakespearen stage, muttering about drink and suchlike inebriators) that I am immaculate and infallible -unlike the pope who is most definitely both, heavily maculated and utterly fallibled!
But I am pleased you paid recognition homage to my sublime skills as a reciter of poems.
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I hate it when Mrs At is out. 🙂
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I know, Voice, et moi aussi!
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A very interesting program is coming up on SBS this sunday. The assassination of Kennedy. Extremely interesting interpretation of what happened. The cia man in the car shot the poor man.
Can’t wait to see what the producers have.
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FB, like Tweeter, seem to have the same shambolic setup. There’s no place you can ask a question nor find an answer. With Tweeter I kept getting different explanations (why they suspended me on two different occasions within weeks after I started) every time and they were worded in such inarticulate and incomprehensible language that I had no idea what was happening. Just formatted passages, formatted by their puters and sent out by their puters.
I don’t hang around places that would give me that much aggravation. I need my greek coffee to have its cream on top, not at the bottom!
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