The Dump is:
For posting comments that don’t get up at the Drum, and for having a pleasant, mirthful or enlightening off-topic discussion.
It’s not for personal abuse of other commenters.
Please do that somewhere else if you must.
Play nicely or piss off.
However, why doesn’t a poster add a link for us to read and comment on here, much quicker. Maybe we can do a bit more bagging here, not that I speak for the moderators, yet.
NB: Being tiresome and boring, racist, sexist or just plain creepy is not playing nicely.
———-
The Pig’s Arms exists because a dozen or so years ago our other favourite playpen – the ABC’s Unleashed blogsphere started to go off. Like a sack of prawn heads in the sun. Something had to be done.
Moderation was taking forever. Comments seemed to be rejected randomly – outrageous ones appeared and reasoned ones were pinged. When they released the Drum / Unleashed ….. things actually got worse !
So many pieces from professional writers appear with no obvious merit. And the moderation has become, to put it frankly, appalling.
As a former contributor and a commenter, I was deeply disappointed at the plummeting quality from our pre-eminent media empire. And I resented so many challenging or dare I say, witty or funny posts in which we’ve invested seconds of our precious time – getting the chop.
So here, for all our benefit – is an open slather blog. Copy and paste your best rejected comments here for posterity. Does not matter whether you’re posting on the Guardian, First Dog on the Moon or wherever else.
And sprinkle pointers to the Pig’s Arms amongst your comments. Let’s try to rescue some of the old faithful.
Cheers,
Emm.
Window Dresser's Arms, Pig & Whistle 
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2014/2/21/australian-news/imfs-lagarde-backs-growth-target?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=589818&utm_campaign=am&modapt=
“Treasurer Joe Hockey’s call to drive global growth beyond current targets has been backed by the International Monetary Fund chief.
But while Christine Lagarde, in Australia ahead of the weekend’s Group of 20 finance minister’s meeting, gave the Abbott administration a pat on the back in some areas, she also offered some advice for domestic growth.
Asked to comment on the government’s move to end the “age of entitlement”, Ms Lagarde told the ABC spending remains essential in some areas.
“Investing in health, investing in education, making sure that there are equal opportunities for all is something where public money is needed.” IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF ENTITLEMENT,” she said.
Ms Lagarde also championed public spending on large infrastructure projects, “where the return on investments is going to be years and years away”.
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Watched her on Q & A last night. Impressive.
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No matter what, no matter who or whatever happens in WA or elsewhere. We will never have a Christine Lagarde amongst our gaggle of politicians.
Isn’t it telling that the IMF chief, fearlessly, appears on such a public program in Australia, and yet, our PM never. Such an incoherent bumbling coward. ” We will not listen to “Moral objections ” ,re the killing and maiming of Manus Island illegally detained prisoners of war.
How refreshing to hear her last night on Q&A. “Health and Education are NOT entitlements”, she reiterated several times.
There is Hockey, “the age of entitlements is over’ and Abbott, ” being the friend of Medicare”, his statement dripping of falseness.
Ah well, we’ll have to live off that for the next decade or so.
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RE, Manus Island: I agree with Vivienne.
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For posting comments that don’t get up at the Drum, and for having a pleasant, mirthful or enlightening off-topic discussion.
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“Beijing: The Abbott government has suffered the ignominy of having its asylum seeker policy publicly criticised by another foreign government – this time China, a country with its own chequered human rights record.
In a sign of lingering bilateral tension between Australia and its largest trading partner, China’s vice-minister of foreign affairs, Li Baodong, said he was concerned about the “very important issue” of the treatment of refugees and asylum seekers, especially children, who arrive in Australia by boat.”
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/china-criticises-abbott-asylum-seeker-policy-20140220-hvd73.html#ixzz2tqt8mIcC
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http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html
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Tried this one twice, in Barns’s piece :
I note that he (the author) is a barrister. I would hope that a panel of jurors could come to a decision, unimpeded by his tarradiddle. If he was representing me, I would feign Ciguatera, until he was called away, to write for The ABC.
I’ll give it another go. it was in sympathy with MJLC
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A Shuffle of Aluminum, but to Banks, Pure Gold
By DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI – Published: July 20, 2013
*1018 Comments*
MOUNT CLEMENS, Mich. — Hundreds of millions of times a day, thirsty Americans open a can of soda, beer or juice. And every time they do it, they pay a fraction of a penny more because of a shrewd maneuver by Goldman Sachs and other financial players that ultimately costs consumers billions of dollars.
The story of how this works begins in 27 industrial warehouses in the Detroit area where a Goldman subsidiary stores customers’ aluminum. Each day, a fleet of trucks shuffles 1,500-pound bars of the metal among the warehouses. Two or three times a day, sometimes more, the drivers make the same circuits. They load in one warehouse. They unload in another. And then they do it again.
This industrial dance has been choreographed by Goldman to exploit pricing regulations set up by an overseas commodities exchange, an investigation by The New York Times has found. The back-and-forth lengthens the storage time. And that adds many millions a year to the coffers of Goldman, which owns the warehouses and charges rent to store the metal. It also increases prices paid by manufacturers and consumers across the country.
….
Read the rest:
…And this:
http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2013/07/21/goldman-sachs-aluminum-scandal-could-roil-financials-and-commodity-prices-this-week/
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Breaking news: Government Market Intervention Causes More Problems than it Solves.
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I’ll spell it out cause it takes in so many themes. The root problem here is the price control. Let the market set the aluminum price and Goldman Sachs can’t game the regulation. Intervention in any complex system provokes complex and unforeseen consequences and spiraling interventions. And unseeable consequences. Save the Ardmona and Holden jobs and get your warm glow. But you don’t see shop-assistants who pay more tax and more for their cars. Or the well paying jobs not created because car dependent businesses have to pay too much for their cars.
Then there’s the nexus between big government and big business. I’ll bet my bottom dollar the people at GS were previously employed to administer if not devise the aluminum price control. Happens all the time. Happens in the finance system. All the people who created post GFC regulations promptly got finance jobs gaming the regulations they created.
Lax attitudes to corruption don’t help either. Tolerance of fraud and corruption creates an environment where this behavior flourishes.
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Whatever is going on in the USA is one thing. But what I clearly learnt from Alan Kohler on the news this week, via graph, was that Chinese overproduction has driven the price down. On the graph it sits up the top and way down the bottom there are about 10 or so other countries including Australia. China has manipulated it so that it dominates. It’s pretty disgusting. If the other producing countries also fold up operations everyone might be at the mercy of China for this product. Where do they get all their raw materials – I don’t know.
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Hi Vivienne, here is something I found on the internet:
“…
A question of competitiveness
Aluminium is produced in two stages: first, bauxite ore is refined into alumina, and this alumina is then smelted to produce aluminium. Alumina refineries tend to be located close to the resource, and Australia’s refineries are generally well-located and commercially competitive.
The recent exception is at Rio Tinto’s Gove refinery in the Northern Territory, which will close this year after struggling with a move from high-cost oil to an alternative such as gas. For Australia’s smelters, the logistics are different. The raw material, alumina, can be transported relatively cheaply around the world.
Aluminium smelting uses huge amounts of electricity, so the cost of that electricity is a key factor in the competitiveness of a smelter. Although China dominates global production, Australia has been among the top five producers in recent years.
When Australia’s smelters were built they benefited from very cheap, long-term electricity agreements with government-owned power companies. These smelters were paying around half to two-thirds of the price paid by other large industrial electricity consumers. The result for aluminium producers was they could be in the top half or even the top quarter in terms of global cost-effectiveness.
In recent years, there have been big – and generally bad – changes.
First, global aluminium prices have been sliding since early 2011, threatening the viability of those producers that were struggling to keep costs down. Second, liberalisation of Australia’s electricity market has meant the end of subsidised power contracts.
Market-based electricity prices push even the best-performing of Australia’s smelters out of the top 25% of global competitiveness.
…”
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And the basic question remains. Why do shop assistants pay tax and/or higher electricity bills so aluminum smelters get their electricity cheap?
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“Jules wants to know why or how an Iranian born national ends up on Manus Island. One could ask why many Australians also have chosen to leave our shores. Over a million in fact. I doubt many in Hong Kong, China, Thailand, the UK, Europe would ask such a dumb question. I suppose the Iranian man must have been caught up in the wars. Iran, by and large is reasonably affluent, despite the severe sanctions placed on its economy by the US and others, and is not as impoverished as some of its neighbours. We knew a couple that were doctors who had chosen to work and live in Iran.
The Australian diaspora has been characterised by population researchers as relatively young, highly skilled and highly educated
–
Australians are a well-travelled bunch, chalking up over eight million overseas departures in 2012 alone. Of that number, 372,200 left our shores with the intention to go ‘for good’. The Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) anticipates that around 80,000 of those Aussies will see that dream realised, starting a new life abroad in 2013”.
[1]. – See more at: http://advance.org/australians-abroad-preliminary-findings-on-the-australian-diaspora/#sthash.Ho6bE21K.dpuf
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Breaking news: Intelligent young people with money and opportunities like to travel.
Breaking news: Homesick Immigrants Return Home
Breaking news: Parochial Racist Australians are Worldly and Comfortable in Foreign Cultures
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I guess that stumped you eh, gerard.
Fortunately, Vivienne, in her innocence answers, making the point that hundreds of others have tried, yet been shouted down.
Your point has always been that these are desperate people fleeing murderous circumstance. I bet you nearly swallowed your tongue when you saw what she wrote. (The truth, BTW, Viv, I am not criticising you for being honest.)
Perhaps some of them are, however, it’s far more likely that the desperate people are cowering in the open, scavenging for food, waiting in penury; begging for medicine, for their stricken children in the hope that they can be selected to come to Australia. Perhaps taking the place of a chubby Pakistani with Ray Bans.
Let’s fulfil our quota with the needy, who couldn’t afford a rag shirt, let alone a trip to Java and a boat journey costing $20-30k.
I don’t understand your twaddle about Australians. They’re not refugees?
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The 200,000 every year I mentioned are the regular migrants who come here – the 300,000 Chinese, the 30,000 Indians, the 30,000 from the UK and Ireland and so forth. I always knew your comprehension skills were not good.
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30,000 Chinese.
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You lost me here Viv.
Or should I say, I haven’t got a clue, as to what you are referring.
I was alluding to your honest reply. Here:
vivienne29 says:
February 19, 2014 at 1:13 pm
Because they didn’t find anything safe along the way. And yes, Australia looks like a good place to aim for. Why did you come to Australia Jules?
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I thought you were referring to another comment I made to do with asylum seekers. That comment I made (which you quote here) is a simple fact. Australia is safe (for those who can get here and that includes yourself Jules – a migrant) and offers, in their view, an end to misery. Well it doesn’t anymore of course. Our selective migration program is falling apart in more than one way.
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And, we had a quote of 20,000 for the ‘needy’ – the humanitarian sector. Abbott has cut it back to 13,000 (ish).
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I think we have two Realists on the Drum. See Jericho’s piece.
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Former New South Wales energy minister Chris Hartcher and two other state government MPs have voluntarily withdrawn from the Liberal Party after moves to suspend them over corruption allegations were put in motion.
A senior government source confirmed to the ABC that the party started the process to suspend Mr Hartcher, Darren Webber and Chris Spence last night after they were named in new public hearings held by the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC).
Vivienne says – see Liberals are just as good at corruption as Obeid & Co.
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At least they didn’t sit in the federal parliament, day after day, stinking like a rotten t**d.
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Actually that is what they were doing for years until it became public knowledge.
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Mrs trousersdown, say that they were NOT Federal.
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Does that matter. They are parliamentarians. This latest lot are Liberals. We’ve had enough of Obeid (State) to last us forever. But, it seems this shonky business when it involves Liberals doesn’t count to some people.
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Too many fuckeeenn Parliaments, for a nation of 23 million.
Left you a note about steaks.
Put your email alert on. Than you can keep up.
off to do some work.
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I used to think we had a few too many but gave that idea away. Look at the size of the country Jules.
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I don’t like email alerts. Too distracting from other work. I come and check when I come and check – sometimes often, sometimes less.
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In our system suspension is what SHOULD happen when rotten apple MPs have credible allegations of corruption against them. It’s not always fair, but the stench of doing otherwise is overwhelming.
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You might be right but it won’t happen when a government is short of surplus seats. Howard hung on to the corrupt bad Mal Coulston (the Labor rat) for a long time. It is a pity. Also a pity that the sanctimonious Bronwyn Bishop abandons the Rule book which she so often quoted from. As Speaker she is totally dreadful – now just makes the rules up as she goes.
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I get the feeling that short of you having your finger nails pulled out, you will never admit that Thomson was a cheat, a liar, a corrupt official, a corrupt MP and a convicted criminal.
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He was found guilty yesterday Jules. I accuse Abbott of fraud because of his bicycle rides for charity and claiming every expense under the sun. It seems to me that the right only ever think some Labor shonky guys are deserving of every bad description under the sun while their own are just doing their job. You seem to love liars yourself Jules. Abbott lies and lies and you think it is just peachy. Now, the law has taken its course. It’s over, Thomson now long gone while the Liberal cheats sit smugly in Parliament perverting the rules and the law.
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It’s not over with Thomson yet.
he has to be sentenced, thenm there will be TV interviews and discusion and articles on The Drum.
It’s only just getting cranked up.
Then of course they can deal with Abooooot’s cycle rides and Clive Hippopotamus’s diet.
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Nassim Nicholas Taleb says the supreme ethic is: if you see a fraud and don’t shout fraud you are a fraud.
Or as General Morrison said: the standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
I find them both persuasive. No excuses. No changing the subject. Fraud is fraud.
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In our parliaments you can’t get sacked from being an MP on an accusation. If you are a Minister it is usually best to step aside from that position while it is sorted. That doesn’t always happen. If you are just an MP you don’t resign your seat on the basis of an allegation. The law takes it course. It did just that for the Liberal shop lifter – Labor let it well alone. Pity was that Thomson got the Liberal parliamentarians as his judge and jury before it even went to an actual court. The MSM pick their targets too. Should we start demanding perfection of everyone?
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Bye Viv.
Said ta ta above and left you a note somewhere else
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It’s alright cos John Howard, it’s alright cos Liberal shoplifter – but what exactly is it you’re arguing for Vivienne? I just don’t believe you think it’s alright for union officials to steal from their members. I’m pretty sure although not completely sure that you don’t believe it’s alright for the the Labor Party to cover it up because it’s your Party.
One alternative is to go in the other direction and say its NOT alright because it’s your Party, or your union, or you support the principle of unions. Ruthlessly root it out.
The more these people get away with, the more criminal types those organisations attract. And no doubt heaps of Liberal politicians have done wrong things. But it beats me why this means you’d refuse to condemn Thomson or those who covered up for him.
It seems to me analogous to the Church cover up on paedophilia. There were many reasons to do so, some actually quite good (such as their ability to carry on doing a lot of good work would be crippled otherwise). But in the end it just turns into Obeid or some other festering sore and explodes.
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Gawd Voice – putting words into my mouth. I’ll write words of condemnation here on the PA when you and Jules et al do the same about your lot. I’m also writing about how the law should be applied. I don’t condemn anyone on allegations unless I see that person first hand with their hand in the till. The Church and dreadful sex crimes is a completely different matter. But I have always disliked organised religion and have nothing to do with it. All hypocrits in my mind. At least Labor starts a Royal Commission into something worthy of a Royal Commission and not a union bashing witch hunt. We’ll never agree Voice.
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When I say quite good, I mean quite good at face value, if you are balancing number of people harmed vs number of people helped for example. Basically, you can make a case that you are protecting the institution, but what you’re really doing is weakening it from the inside.
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Voice, you’ve lost me with your line of thought – you’re sticking with the Church thing? Nothing quite good about any of it – decades of dreadful treatment of children in their care. But it was the same with the Stolen Generation, the orphanages, the choir boys etc etc. The blind faith the families had was extraordinary in those cases. The abuse by the Church can never ever be excused. Even their ‘good works’ now are nothing but a business, getting government contracts as started by Howard. Why the heck Labor went on with the Chaplain thing is just beyond my understanding. Here’s an idea – all MPs should be non-believers (and that goes for Kevin too).
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In my view the best thing Shorten could do is embrace tackling union corruption and as much as he can actually take ownership of it (the tackling, not the corruption). Labor is already out of government so they can’t lose it. In NSW at least it’s not so much as tarnished with corruption as buried in it, and guys from the NSW Labor faction that supported Obeid have had a huge influence on internal federal Labor power broking. Have a big cleanout, publicly air things BEFORE the Royal Commission digs them up, call in the police, quarantine politicians who are under credible suspicion.
Get it done before the 3 years to the next election are up. Otherwise Abbott can call cover up every time the RC finds something out, and it will drag on and on and on to the election after that. Do a Bob Hawke (Who aired all his dirty linen publicly before his enemies could and before running for top office).
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Hmmmm – don’t think Shorten can fess up to being a womanising drunk. (PS : I’ve met Bob Hawke and on that same evening he propositioned my best friend – he must like tall women, she was much taller than me!) Shorten already called for the Crime Commission to deal with it. I think you expect too much as far as reality and the law goes.
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Swapping from one thing to another. Here’s another. The best thing the Coalition can do right now is GROW A BRAIN. I’m sick of lying morons. Between Voice, Jules and SM here I am sure even you three would be better than what we’ve got.
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Didn’t Ellis say you were a Liberal supporter when you disagreed with him about something? Ah well.
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Yes he did. He was off his rocker at the time. Ellis can be a bit weird. He hated Julia Gillard so much. What’s that got to do with anything?
Turning computer off for the day. Night all.
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Jules thinks I vote Labor. Just sayin…
Voice and I both seem to be recommending ways for Labor to improve itself. Just sayin…
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Maybe you’re schizophrenic, SM?
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Especially considering the events on Manus Island the last couple of days. How does stealing or spending other peoples’ money compare with the genocidal tactics by Morrison and Abbott in slowly demolishing the only dignity and last vestige that thousands of people still might have; a hope of being able to be accepted as human beings by others. Oh, how Goebbels must be smiling. How a delicious victory for them of having convinced a nation, this is all done under the guise of saving them from drowning.
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Sieg heil, Herr Morrison!!
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The only thing separating Morrison from being locked up on Manus Island as an Iranian refugee, is the luck of his birth. May he be re-incarnated as one.
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What on earth is an Iranian doing in Manus Island?
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…up to his eyeballs in shit.
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Jayell,
The Iranian man was shot dead. No doubt some feel it is his own fault.
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Ok, I didn’t know that.
Who shot him and what was he doing in the kamp, gerard?
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Jules, do read a bit of the news. It’s all explained factually. You shouldn’t need spoon feeding.
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Well, this is a discussion forum. So I am looking for other perspectives here.
So, as you have jumped in, why do you think that Iranians choose Australia, and make such a long detour to get here?
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Because they didn’t find anything safe along the way. And yes, Australia looks like a good place to aim for. Why did you come to Australia Jules?
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-22/craig-thomson-trial3a-2462c000-in-escort-transactions-on-tho/5212762
You wouldn’t want to accept this guy’s vote, would you?
OK, I’m off to pick some chillies and make a vegetable curry.
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The poor bugger has already been hauled through the courts, been badly treated in the press for a couple of years, lost his job. It’s enough I think.
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Yes, I agree Viv, but it brightened up the otherwise perpetual gloom.
Here’s another snippet.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/australian-federal-police-raid-channel-7-over-schapelle-corby/story-fnihslxi-1226830274291?utm_source=Courier%20Mail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=84904769
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Back to cleaning chillies. I’ll send you a curry sachet.
Do you know how many types there are?
Here: There are five domesticated species of chilli and over 60 different types of chilli. As of April 2012, the hottest chilli in the world is the Trinidad Moruga Scorpion, which has a scoville heat rating of 2 million.
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On chillies. I prefer to use a very good properly ground powder one from India. Of course chillies all came from Mexico. I mix all my ‘curry’ concoctions myself – they’re really good.
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Dried chilli is OK to keep in a cupboard, however fresh is always best.
Even chilli con carne, tastes better with fresh. Plenty of cumin and ‘Aussie’ tomato paste.
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I disagree Jules. It depends on the actual dish you are preparing.
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Well that’s OK Viv, stick to what you know.
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Do you use dried cummin? It’s not what I know, it’s what I prefer. You have your preferences, I have mine. What’s best? Scotch fillet, rib eye, eye fillet, rump, T-bone, porterhouse?
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Yes, dried cumin. I made a cucumber raitha with it (and Greek yoghurt). Remember, I made a veggie curry.
I like to use porterhouse, or as I know it best; sirloin, or in France they call it contre-fillt, or entrecôte. Well they are cyt slightly differently (glad atomou, is not here to check my grammar).
It is off the spine next to the fillet and it has a bit more flavour than fillet. it has an edge of fat on it, depending how it is cut.
It’s very versatile, as one can cook it whole – and then slice it (quite thinly and rare, if one wants).
It is also great as a BBQ steak thick or thin, and is rarley tough,. Although some supermarkets here used to sell it in bulk, however it was from a cow.
A great simple meal – and one that I used to serve in my restaurant, is a 300g sirloin,cooked to order, as per request, with a Dijon sauce. i used to make the sauce in the same pan while the steak was resting.
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Jules, thanks, but I don’t need a blow by blow description of the cut and where it comes from. I don’t give a rats what they call it in France btw. Now, it is obvious that there is no clear answer to my question because it is all down to preference and perhaps just what one fancies on the day. However, for me the answer to best beef cut is this – the one that has been properly aged. Any of the cuts can be pretty ordinary without ageing. Also some relevance must be given to what the animals has been eating. In a few weeks’ time I’ll be having lamb which spent the last 7 months in my paddock. They’ve dined on apricots, almonds and figs and native grasses. I’ll let you know if I detect a difference in the flavour.
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“I don’t give a rats what they call it in France btw.”
OK. That was a bit unnecessary, I was only trying to be helpful, in answering your question, in a friendly, informative way.
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I must protest at ‘poor bugger’, he has committed felony and larceny. I wonder how long he will serve in prison – poor bugger.
he might gety buggered, i suppose.
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How does that compare with the jailing of refugees? No trial, no justice. No crime, yet indefinite jailing. I’ll be happy to compare Thomson with Abbott and Morrison anytime. One has fiddled money for sex or cigarettes, the others responsible for the misery (and now death) of thousands. The ends don’t justify the means.
Go and pick your chillies, but don’t swamp the Pig’s Arms with silly news about Craig Thomson…and defend the odious actions of our heartless/rotten government.
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Finally an end to the case. I remember when it cropped up in a Qanda program I reviewed here.
That was 2 1/2 years ago.
It’s a huge black mark against the Labor Party and the Health Services Union leadership, both of whom it was clear even back then had attempted a giant cover-up. That’s what really stinks about this case, not what Thomson did in robbing the union members; OK that really stinks, but the political stench comes from the cover-up. Then later from him remaining in parliament.
From http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-18/craig-thomson-verdict/5266468 – “Furthermore, Thomson was found guilty of misusing union funds AFTER he had resigned as national secretary in 2007 and elected to Federal Parliament as the member for Dobell.” Crikey.
I disagree with 2 years being dragged through the courts and badly treated in the press making Thomson some kind of martyr. He was completely ruthless in the way he vilified his accusers.
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I agree. The offence is one thing. The habitual lying is another. He lied to everyone. Parliament , several courts…
I’ve said it to Viv before. If the Labor Party wants to be considered a social justice party it needs to hold itself to a higher ethical standard. Poor bugger and the other mob do it too don’t cut it. The Labor Party needs to root this out. Careerists and corruption need to be gone. I’ve mentioned before I was once a shop steward. I was also a Labor Party member. I’ve worked in local government so I’ve seen it close. The Labor Party is full of people with zero Labor values whose only interest is self advancement. In my youthful naevity I would wonder what they were doing there.
I know for a fact Obeid had access to serving politicians as late as last year.
Changing the subject to refugees doesn’t cut it either. Someone who is so concerned about the malevolent influence of sociopaths should here alarm bells when he reads of Thompson’s habitual lying and sexual habits. How does a person like this rise to the top?
I would also suggest if Labor was capable of acting with principle it mightn’t have engaged in a race to the bottom on refugees.
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It is a mess but the whole story can be found in the archives at IA. Kathy Jackson is probably just as guilty of ‘stealing’ HSU money. I did think Thomson was not guilty, that he had been set up but with his not contesting the prostitute expenditure it must be that he was a dreadful liar these last years. Personally I think Abbott and a few of his Ministers and MPs are just as guilty of theft from the public with their use of expenses. It all comes down to which side of politics you favour. But I don’t think a rotten egg or two here and there means the whole packet is bad.
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So Mark Dreyfuss, the former Attorney General is as guilty as Thomson, because he told lies and claimed money (stole)?
I don’t think so. Like many of them they are busy and rely on their staff to process stuff.
How long do you think Thomson will get? 2 years, 5 years?
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I see that Slipper, the former Speaker, is in the news again.
He looks a chance to get off??
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The issue that matters isn’t the rotten eggs, it’s the union and Party cover ups. If Kathy Jackson has stolen money, or is even reasonably suspected of it the same principle applies.
Why hasn’t it been taken to the police? Is it another cover up? She was one of the whistle blowers vilified horribly by Thomson and his supporters, and by some Labor supporters. But if there’s anything of substance behind it, the union should take the allegations to the police.
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I’ve just seen too much, Viv. Its the bad eggs calling the shots. Obeid.
Maybe its just my NSW perspective. Maybe its cleaner in Vic.
When I started in Local Gov I refused coffee loyalty cards. If I was 10 cents short on a coffee I would leave it, go to work, get 10 cents and go back. Even if the shop owner told me not to worry. I stopped going to a barber because he kept offering me $1 discounts (which I refused). That’s the standard I set myself. Although technically I should have reported the barber but didn’t.
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Jules, it sort of depends on whether or not they refunded the money. Many did and I do believe that Libs and Lab alike have staffers who put the claim forms for signing and that’s that. They don’t actually know what was going on. But Abbott never gave money back.
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SM – you’re an interesting character. When I was in local government there was no such thing as loyalty cards. I’ve been on Council staff (5 years) and I had a stint as an elected Councillor. 10 cents or $1 discounts – are you suggesting they were bribes ? Pretty weird. I set very high standards for myself too. My direct involvement ended 20 years ago. Since then I observe and occasionally make a submission which is usually dutifully sidestepped or overridden on very shonky grounds. How Planners, CEOs etc interpret the LG rules and laws seems to be very flexible. In my rural/regional area we have little shonky stuff going on. The local councils look after their staff and bending planning rules is now very hard to do. I’m talking about NSW LG btw. The crook councils I know of through reading the papers etc over the last ten years or so have all come undone.
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SM said ‘The Labor Party is full of people with zero Labor values whose only interest is self advancement’. You could say exactly the same for Liberal and National Parties. You know it is true that Turnbull shopped around. I know from first hand experience – I met him way back in the late 70s. Here, we also had a local councillor who stood for every party there was in his effort to gain a seat in State government. Actually, not quite true – Labor told him to piss off.
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OMG, more.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-23/union-whistleblower-kathy-jackson-fronts-thomson-trial/5215060
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His statement shows the films offered included Perfect Pink and Fresh Temptations, and they ran for almost 10 hours.. . Not a bad gig, being a union official.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-28/craig-thomson-fraud-trial3a-court-told-no-one-else-could-have-/5222554
Still, on the plus side, he looked after his ‘escorts’. Champers no less.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-18/craig-thomson-verdict/5266468
Bound to be an article on The Drum.
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How Much Longer Will This Madness Continue?
By Ben Eltham
https://newmatilda.com//2014/02/18/how-much-longer-will-madness-continue
In a functioning democracy, Immigration Minister Scott Morrison would resign over the Manus Island riot. This is a low point in a decade-long campaign of dehumanisation, writes Ben Eltham
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Things are awfully quiet on the Olympic winter sports front. A bit odd isn’t it seeing we are so keen on sport in Australia. Is there a drought on in the sports world as well?
Here is the latest medal tally;
http://espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2014/medals
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Turned it on and saw some bloke sliding down a handrail in the middle of a ski slope. Why the hell does anyone need a handrail in the middle of a ski slope? Its all so contrived. Slopestyle. Free style. Fugedaboutit!
As an avid skateboarder in my youth, I have a big philosophical problem with sports that imitate skateboarding but take away its accessibility. One can skate in the projects in the US or the estates in the UK without an airfare, accommodation and lift tickets. I’ve also got an aesthetic problem with sports that imitate skateboarding but the device is fixed to ones foot. That’s just cheating.
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A word in my defence. If I may. I don’t spend all day blogging. I dip in and out at odd intervals. Like the line says above. Seconds of our precious time.
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That’s a song.
I’ll think of it in a minute….
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Is that photo you?
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And by the way. A minority of people who read the comments actually comment themselves. I’m telling you all its eccentric behavior.
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Yes. Algy asked me, too. It was late 70s by Putney Bridge.
A magazine called Harper’s Bazaar did an article on me with a few photos. Somehow I kept this one, however lost the copy of the magazine. Actually, I have on page, I think.
Ancient history. When I was The king’s Road kid, ha ha.
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Well I was tricked into coming here by Mike. However the bonus is that I got to meet Asty, Voix, Hung one on (when he’s not actually hanging one on), Big Nurse and atomou.
The others are OK, but too entrenched in politics: that’s head banging stuff: politics.
Fun is more me….Maybe I could stand at the next election. the Fun Party.
Better still, The Serious Fun Party.
………………..
They found an 800,000 yera old footprint in Norfolk the other day. Down in an estuary.
Sort of puts things in perspective really. Takes the worry out of forming committees, to oversee committees, who of course employ drongos to oversee committees.
Yeah FUN I think, maybe….”here for a second fun party’
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A magazine called Harpers Bazaar. Thanks for telling me it was a magazine. Never heard of it out here in the colonies.
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No, I imagine you wouldn’t: http://www.harpersbazaar.com.au/
It’s changed a bit. it used to have more written articles, but mainly it was about fashion ect, ect.
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Your wife will have heard of it, SM. It’s part of the magazine furniture. Often found in haridressers (the salon, that is).
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I’d heard of it too. Pop culture osmosis success!
I was joking. I was playing the dumb colonial to the worldly Jayell.
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‘mainly it was about fashion ect, ect.’
In other words, full of shit!
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Don’t worry, I’m like Hoagy Carmichael…I wish I’d done more with my life.
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Really Jules (‘The others are OK, but too entrenched in politics: that’s head banging stuff: politics.’) – my last four articles, at least, on cooking and travelling stuff and not one single comment from you. Not politics. Now, the Dump and the Drum is pretty well all politics. You bring politics up even when you are pretending to be such a fun guy looking for fun stuff. Do you ever read what you write in your comments?
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Apologies Viv.
I was tired 🙂 …………………..here: a real smiley. No fakes
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It’s a great song, Big M. Have you seen the Simpsons episode where Homer sings it? Very funny.
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You need to run it for at least 2.5 minutes to hear the bit that stays in your head – like tinnitus- for years.
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Isn’t it polite to wait until you’ve been attacked/accused before presenting a defence?
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The best form of defence…
I was referring to something Algernon said of me the other day and I didn’t read because I didn’t come here all weekend. Only read it on the train on the way home. I suppose I was rude in that I broke the thread but I didn’t want him to miss it.
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Half Past Human:
17 Feb 2014 2:29:56pm
We often arrive at a generalization but don’t or can’t list all the exceptions. When we reason with the generalization as if it has no exceptions, our reasoning contains the fallacy of accident. This fallacy is sometimes called the “fallacy of sweeping generalization.”
Waterloo says:
“And with a graduated bribe structure pervading their whole culture they will keep at it..”
A typical right-wing comment bordering on racism towards Indonesians. Your knowledge of Indonesia, which has a population of 240 million people with different languages, religions and cultures, is limited. And coupled with that, your fake compassion towards boat people, and those already drowned, makes you appear as an ignorant and a heartless fool on these pages. For all our sakes, and for a better relationship between our country and Indonesia, I hope no Indonesian will read your words today.
Compassion is so easy to fake for Right wingers.
This blogger, is, in my view, completely unhinged.
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Which one???
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Which blogger, or which article, Big?
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blogger?
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I’m going out shortly, so I’ll respond to both cases.
I though that we would have more harmony, now that Mike had settled back in. I have been perusing some old ideas for stories.
However, I don’t relish the idea of being stalked on the Drum, by a PA blogger.
I welcome differences of opinion. Go knows, I am a right wing socialist and you lot are left wing liberals.
But it’s hard to stomach silly lies, bitchy comments and general bad behaviour. I don’t mean differences of opinion. I mean silly personal insults…..It’s tiresome and adds nothing but bad feeling.
And I know how I respond to being bad mouthed in a pub. Same as you probably. left or right.
Probably solar plexus 1st. 😦
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Don’t worry, I’m being deliberately vexatious.
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It hadn’t escaped notice that hph has been busily stirring shit at the Bum!
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It’s not stalking Jules. You just have a knack of provoking people who see through what I also happen to believe is fake concern. You, yourself, have often commented on a comment of mine. I occasionally have done the same to you. Not stalking by you? I think you should get over it.
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Vivienne, it never occurred to me that you were??
I didn’t mention you.
On another matter, I think that it is unbelievable that any one could take it upon oneself to say that people aren’t concerned about deaths at sea, mental health bashing (to death), poverty, penury, torture, stealing of union funds and other terrible circumstances.
I find it quite bewildering that one would step out side of one’s field of expertise and make idiotic clinical statements, about other’s angsts being fake or not.
I would never dream of making any such comment about you. Especially since I don’t know anything about you.
You may have dead bodies buried in your garden. Agatha Christie, always found the most innocent of ladies, to be murderesses. (that was tongue in cheek, BTW.)
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Jules, you wrote “However, I don’t relish the idea of being stalked on the Drum, by a PA blogger.”. I’ve followed that up in an endeavour to point out reality. You don’t seem to notice that you and many others step out of their field of expertise all the time – see the Drum. People love to comment and a few do, I think, pretend to have expertise in many areas.
I have got dead bodies on the property – dogs, chooks and two sheep (one was a pet raised from birth, the surviving triplet abandoned by mum).
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Luckily, I had my email alert on and stopped on the way to get some chillies, mentioned above.
I recommend it Viv, in order to know what’s going on!
Yes of course we make comments about all manner of things. And about things that we have opinions about, however, when you say that a particular, nominated person has a mental illness. vis a vis: “I also happen to believe is fake concern”. In other words, a fake concern about people dying??Hello?
That’s strong stuff and shouldn’t be said lightly, in my view.
It is one thing to call someone a moron, but another entirely, to assert that someone that you know isn’t concerned about people dying.
In my case, I have written about it for 6 years!
I also make the case – before I go picking, that if it wasn’t for Rudd, the detention centres wouldn’t be there. So he and his followers are responsible for yesterday’s riots.
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Credit where credit is due Jules. Howard and his concentration camp loving MPs built Manus and Nauru. Tragically Rudd reopened them after a bit of refurshing.
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PS Jules – re fake concerns and all that – if you don’t like it you could get of the kitchen and you could try to remember the accusations you have made – murderer etc. I’m neither accusing nor defending, just reminding. So, may I politely suggest that that particular concern of yours now be left alone. It’s going nowhere.
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Just going back to this comment about murdering.
I’m wondering if you can distinguish between wanting people to stay on land and wanting (or enticing) them to attempt a sea crossing, so that they can they stay with kind families in the community?
You see both sentiments have consequences.
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Jayell;
You are hardly back and so are the personal insults. Troll alert/ Moderator, where are you?
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Still trying to cause dissension eh, gerad?
I suppose that it would be too much trouble to ask you to point out the insult, in this forum.
Of course there isn’t one is there? Just a silly comment (from you). And guess what, it will stay here now. No making our comments disappear, as you used to with Voice and atomou.
Can you please stop stalking me, and I’ll promise to ignore you and your anti-Australian comments. Bargain?
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And, BTW, this is The Dump, for comments about The ABC Drum.
I’m on topic.
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Next time you hear of Tony Abbott’s working at an Aboriginal settlement for two weeks a year, it might be worthwhile to look at the cost of his volunteering.
Last time it wasn’t for two weeks it was just 2days. Look at page twelve of Abbott’s costs.
Click to access ABBOTT_Tony.pdf
The return flight alone cost $ 9636.36. Some ‘volunteering’.
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I know Gerard – well aware and of the proof in the refs via gov website’s own finance details. This of course was never understood/acknowledged by you know who here. His idea of volunteering or volunteering according to Pyne and his supporters is just so not so.
I’m having connection problems to the internet. Don’t know if it is my ISP or some other problem. It’s on and off. ISP don’t answer phone on weekends.
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I noticed last night on the ABC News that the police had arrest warrants out for Greg Batty. “he should have been in jail” was being shouted.
NO: he should have been under CARE. The mentally ill should NOT be in jail. My brother Frank never smoked dope. He suffered schizophrenia and at times had severe violent outbursts. It might well be a genetic problem or… the lack of nutrition we suffered during the WW2. All I know is that Frank survived through good care in Holland and was never jailed. He would not have survived in Australia. He is still alive but not for long, he is almost 75!
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I am somewhat horrified by what is playing out here.
The dignity in which Mrs Batty fronted the vomitous press and explained through her grief that her ex husband had struggled with mental illness and how he loved his son and how he loved him as well. She had suffered from the violence that was caused by the mental illness and I suspect the inability of the “system” to be able to cater for them and for Greg. Let’s be clear here this is a tragedy of epic proportions. A boy has been brutally murdeded and Greg has committed suicide by cop. What of the police who shot him.
How sickening for the police of Victoria to blame themselves, there were arrest warrants out for a mentally ill man, a computer glitch they say. He should be behind bars he should have had help. What on earth do they expect to get out of all of that.
The vomitous press, looking for the ghoul angle to spew forth their vomitous story because there is a need to satisfy our ghoulish desire.
Mental health is inadequate in this country, we know that. even living where I do with the best mental health facilities in the country we know that they can only deal with the crisis when it becomes the crisis.
Gerard, I’m sure that Holland has a better mental health system than we do, however compare apples with apples. Holland is a pocket sized country that would fit into the area between Woolongong and Newcastle and out to Bathurst with a similar population to Australia. Australia on the other hand is the size of western Europe with a dispersed population. They have economies of scale that Australia can only dream of.
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Yes, Holland is small but per area has a much denser and higher population than Australia. They pay much more taxation which enables mental health care to be better funded. Here prisons are de-facto mental care places. Totally unsuitable.
It is very much the same in the UK. Somehow, mental health issues are bundled together with Courts and punishment.
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And when the come out of prisons they’re dumped into Public Housing. That’s not what public housing is supposed to be or was in the past. Tax is a dirty word in this country, when you have a country that squanders the wealth as they did in the early part of the last decade. Mental health is inadequate in this country, mental health practitioners will tell you that.
The smaller area of Holland makes it far more easier to fund their mental health, Here you could drive the further than of the length or breath of Holland to receive mental health help. Even if you spent the money required that would not change.
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TRue, there is not much you can do about vast distances. Still, we are highly urbanised and most of us do live in cities and towns.
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True, someone once told me you could have a psychologist on every street corner and it probably wouldn’t be enough. When 1:5 or worse will have some sort of mental health issue in the course of their lives.
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The media is so very ugly in how they squeeze every drop of sensationalism out of tragedies. It is simply repulsive.
Keep in mind we don’t really know anything except the basic facts – all else is speculation. We don’t know what mental illness this man suffered or how it would have been dealt with in even a world as close to perfect as possible given our current state of medical technology. It could be he would have killed his son even in that world, because unless he had an illness that meant he needed to be permanently under guard for the rest of his life, the boundary between when he should be under guard (receiving appropriate treatment) and when he shouldn’t be, is very fuzzy. Fuzzy because measuring the immediate risk is very imperfect, and fuzzy because eliminating risk has to be balanced against personal freedom.
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No argument there Voice, summed it up well.We can only make assumptions as to who what & why here. We shouldn’t do that.
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Exactly Algy and this is where the press irritates the heck out of me. So too does the rush to judgement brigade I have to say.
One of my pet peeves is reported casualty statistics after a mass tragedy such as an earthquake. They are never worth the virtual paper they’re written on. Of course this doesn’t really cause any damage, unlike their ongoing witch-hunt for scapegoats – the gift that goes on giving because the next day there’s a story about how the scape-goat has been unfairly accused, and it they’re lucky they can get a few more stories about how the scape-goat has been unfairly picketed or beaten up or forced out of their job.
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Why on earth would the Victorian Police Commissioner come out with his mea culpa yesterday and talk about a computer glitch. What on earth does that do for the morale of the police on the ground and the people of the town in question. What purpose did it serve other than to amplify the grief.
Yet the press vultures were there to pick over the bones and spin their story.
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Perhaps he should have been under care, perhaps he shouldn’t. In the article I read the mother said he had an UNDIAGNOSED mental illness.
She says ‘Greg had been offered help, but he failed to accept it, instead choosing to “believe he was OK” ‘.
In other words (IF the newspaper report proves to be accurate and IF the mother proves to be correct) to receive treatment he would have had to be scheduled. Scheduling is difficult, and long term scheduling is several orders of magnitude more difficult.
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Agreed, Voice. When I started my nursing training, it was fairly common for the police to bring a prisoner to emergency for psychiatric assessment and scheduling to the nearest mental health facility. Modern police now have degrees in policing, yet seem to have less capabilities when it comes to managing the difficult person at the coal face. As you’ve pointed out, it is very difficult to keep someone under psychiatric care. There are frequent tribunals which assess the ongoing need for care. This has been fabulous for those who have improved (I once met a woman who had been in a psychiatric hospital for over 50 years, who wasn’t mad), but, as you point out, allows many of the mentally ill to slip out into the community.
It is also very difficult to get to the truth of this tragedy. The media are too quick to publish/regurgitate the sensational, without proper regard for the veracity of the facts. Perhaps they should be forced to wait for the Coroner’s findings, which will be released in a couple of months?
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The problem there Big is that “we’ve” become accustomed to getting the information now. In a few month’s it’s nowhere near as sensational.
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Yes, so many of us have seven minute attention spans. It would be good to honour the memories of the father and son to wait for the truth, or, at least the nearest to the truth.
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Whatever one says about this it is because the media has made a big deal about one family’s crisis which tragically became very public. I think it should have been reported initially and then left well and truly alone. We don’t need public examination bit by bit and speculation on one tragedy by examining that one family. Change the news to mental health matters and how they are managed or not managed (those who won’t seek or accept help etc) and leave it at that.
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And more than likely undiagnosed for a long period without those around him knowing or even understanding that he had a mental illness. Mental illness holds a stigma (it shouldn’t) and still does to a lesser extent.. Even if he was scheduled it would have only been for a short period. As you say longer periods require a greater magnitude.
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Yes, to have twenty years of mental problems , outstanding warrants and an AVO and remain undiagnosed beggars disbelief.
The area of involuntary admission was a huge problem for my parents. Whenever Frank wasn’t well and he would travel home by train (in his pyjamas from Callan Park), my mother shed oceans of tears how that could have happened to her son in a country that was supposed to be better. The Callan Park hospital was supposed to look after Frank. It was around 1960 or so.
“But, Mrs Oosterman; ” just sign this piece of paper, but then he will never come home again,” the ‘official’ proffered. No, my mum answered, “we only don’t want him to come home when he is not well and violent, but welcome Frank when he is well”. “We will never allow him to get locked up for life.”
This problem was sorted within a few days when both my parents and Frank went back to live in Holland in 1974. He came home when well and was cared for when not. He did live permanently at his care facility, but was free to chose to visit anyone he liked, but…always with nurses accompanying him.
Involuntary admission was then and seems still today a huge area of difficulty in Australia.
A year ago or more, a father and daughter were killed by a schizophrenic son. The father previously had begged for the son to get treatment. Anne Deveson wrote a book about her son ‘Jonethan’ who ended up wandering the Streets.
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“Yes, to have twenty years of mental problems, outstanding warrants and an AVO and remain undiagnosed beggars disbelief.”
I don’t agree with that if the person doesn’t want to be diagnosed. There is nothing about having outstanding warrants and an AVO that means someone will be automatically scheduled.
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i’m late to this interesting discussion. Apologies. I agree with much that has been said, and in particular Viv’s point that it should have been reported and then left alone. I was gob-smacked by the ABC news completely morphing into a replacement for Sixty Minutes sensationalist shit. They have single-handedly lowered the bar to new subterranean levels.
The police commissioner blaming the computer was complete rubbish. As a person working (almost) in the computer industry for decades, I’ve heard every kind of bullshit “the computer made an error” excuse and I don’t think he was in the slightest bit truthful. He had “big fib” written all over his deeply sincere puppy eyed face. Disgraceful.
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Emmjay, GO TO BED!!
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On Human Cost article on the Drum (re drought) I was cranky that it came to a halt although not closed. I had a comment I wanted to put up. To subsidise or not, to be consistent or not and all that. When the long 1996-2009 drought was on the water supplies to Melbourne and Sydney were seriously low (by their standards) and two billion+ dollars desal plants were built as well as a pipeline to steal water from rural areas. Billions of dollars to look after water for the city slickers. Yet people on that Drum article yabbered on about if the farmer’s business failed tough luck etc etc. The sheep and cattle farmers have or are running out of water. What is the difference?
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Which pipeline was that vivenne. If its the pipeline from Tallowa to Warragamba its between two SCA storages, hardly stealing. It might be worth noting that the largest domestic users of water during that drought was Leeton which used 3x per head that Sydney used.
It might be better if water was taken out of the hands of local government and taken up be a regional body. All but three LGA’s west of the mountains in NSW are essentially bankrupt. In just the last week we’ve seen Dalton and Gunning go to Level 5 restrictions because the council took their eyes off their water supply. They went from 1 to 5 in one hit. Lithgow council managed to turn the pipeline off that supplied it incorrectly forcing percussion up the line which just happened to burst where it crossed a railway. Lithgow had apart from that stored in their reservoir for 24 hours, then turned around and blamed someone else for their stupidity.
There are failed farmers, most of them though are good managers of their properties. There are failed in every industry.
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Found this to give you info on that pipeline. I think there was another stretch of pipe but have to find it. http://www.jobbo.com.au/plug.html
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Here is another : http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/melbourne_details.php?id=14375#.Uv7DBM5qOqY
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Fair enough vivenne, they shouldn’t be taking water for irrigation to use for water supply either. On the other hand Victoria would be better to get their whole water industry in order. It’s not in good shape, hence their reluctance to deal with the MDBA.
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There has been a huge fight here, in the Hunter valley, to prevent the Tillegra Dam from being constructed. It was originally touted as the answer to drought proofing Newcastle. Fortunately Newcastle IS pretty much drought proof, thanks to the Chichester Dam, as well as subsidiary reservoirs, plus the Tomago sand beds (which are very rarely used). Excess water is piped to the Central Coast. Turns out, it was intended to supply water to proposed coal mines, which use more water than residents or agriculture. We was lied to!
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So it should be drought proof with Barrington Tops behind it.
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It is, but coal miners are pretty disingenuous about water use. The amount of water used to wash coal is enormous. Yes, coal is washed before it is sold, and the filthy run-off has to go somewhere…usually to poison agricultural land.
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There’s prime land around Muswellbrook yet all they want to do is dig it up. Some of those pits are enormous. One of them is 400 metres below sea level. Imagine if one of the dams broke you’d have a permanent lake.
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Yes, horse studs and the best vineyards in Australia, covered in coal dust!
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some of the oldest too Big M, of course asthma rates area lot higher than normal too. Wasn’t always like that.
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Highest asthma rate in Australia, therefore the greatest number of paediatric and adult respiratory physicians, and probably the most research on asthma in the southern hemisphere. Of course the coal miners woulds see all of that as positives!
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A by-product so to speak, they would see that research as giving something back to the community. In a positive way of course.
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They donate plenty of money to hospitals, and research foundations, but nowhere near the amount of sickness and suffering they cause. Currently they refuse to place covers over coal wagons, because the dust ‘doesn’t cause problems’!
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Nor do they want the monitoring I understand. The still sponsor football teams too I suppose, being the good corporate citizens they are.
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It was in Victoria. It got a lot of news coverage with people trying to stop it from being carried out etc. Obviously didn’t make the NSW news ! It was stealing – the Vic Labor govt panicked. The Vics do have regional water authorities. Living in this part of the world, even though it is NSW, you’d think we were in Victoria. It’s all AFL etc. We have a special satellite to get NSW ABC news and it also gives us all ABC and SBS all over Australia. So if, by chance, we missed it I can tune into SA for instance. That Gunning water supply relies on a river which basically suddenly stopped overnight. But I see they are building a reservoir so the future should be better managed as long as it rains.
The drought article and farmers etc – it is really all about sheep and cattle grazing in marginal areas which can be just fine for years and then when a drought longer than 12 months hits they are up the shit. Don’t you see my point about failing water supplies in Melbourne and what happens versus failing water supply in some rural area? No one says ‘stiff shit’ to the cities.
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The news about the pipeline now you’ve pointed it out did make the news here, however, it’s probably more Victoria centric. It’s Murray Goulburn Water if I’m not mistaken look after Lake Eildon.
The river bed at Gunning changed after consecutive flood and moved the sand further downstream. That’s what rivers west of the divide do. They rely on pumping the river and filtration. Like many other LGA’s they get a grant for the filtration of the water, collect the rates from it, divert those funds into other projects in the area, 20 years later when the filtration breaks down they put their hand out for another grant. Town water can and should be managed better than that.as most LGA’s aren’t big enough to cope with that on top of everything else they are expected to supply.
Vivenne, I work in the water industry and in particular rural water so my focus is more toward than than city water supply. If it wasn’t for the irrigation then half of NSW and the top end of Victoria would be marginal and only good for running a few sheep and cattle. As for those outside the irrigation areas they do it tough regardless of drought or not.
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Yeh, it’s hard to keep track of what’s what re the MDBA. It is bloody ridiculous. Because of my daughter’s work I’ve been indirectly involved in a lot of stuff to do with irrigation and underground water. Nothing is ever perfect but I do know that there are a whole heap of good stories which never see the light of day. All that transcribing I’ve been doing happens to be of conversations with farmers who irrigate via various means. They tell the story of changes brought about by govt – including costs, improvements, availability and all sort of things. What I know is all confidential so I can’t give examples.
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It is actually very dry in my region. We have just received our second rainfall for the year.
It rained on 5 days in December 2013, 1 day in January 2014 and now one day in Feb. How much we get in March and then more importantly in April will be the difference between more drought or a hopefully ‘normal’ year including some decent winter rain. The rain doesn’t always fall when it is most needed. Before the big drought broke the Hume Dam was barely 2% full – you could walk across it. That water of course goes down the Murray and looks after a heck of a lot of people, farms and industry. A year ago it was full. Now it is close to 50%. Managing water is crucial.
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Dry in a lot of places vivenne, we’ve had 300mm since June and most of that fell in November. Since then we’ve had 50mm with the third driest Summer on record currently. The next months are meant to be the wet months. Even this rain band at the moment is doing nothing. 3mm if were lucky. I’ve noticed the land drying out on my regular trips to Dubbo. Hume Dam supplies a lot of people as well as indirectly Adelaide, along with Menindee Lakes. If there isn’t decent Autumn and winter rains then all the storages will dry out again.
A lot of cap and pipe work has gone on which can only mean savings yet the funding I think has run out.
Yet it wasn’t that long ago that the Murrumbidgee and Lachlan Valleys had their worst floods since white settlement.
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Sometimes I read this weekly MDBA report Vivienne. I don’t pretend to have more than a superficial understanding of it, but Dartmouth tops up Hume. As long as Dartmouth storage is at 92% (which is is now) there’s no need to have out of the ordinary concern for Hume. Dartmouth would be higher but a month or two ago there was a big release to Hume to reduce the risk of winter-spring spills from Dartmouth, as well as to top up Hume.
http://www.mdba.gov.au/river-data/current-information-forecasts/weekly-report
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Dartmouth at the time was at similar levels to Hume when it was a 2%. Hume is near the junction where the Mitta Mitta runs into the Murray. Hume is fed via the Murray from the Snowy Mountains where as Dartmouth is from the Victorian Alps. They operate in a similar way to the storages in the Snowy scheme where the first 4 are used for Hydro with Blowering used primarily fro irrigation.
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Yes Voice, I am of course well aware of Dartmouth and how it is managed. Dartmouth releases water every now and then. It’s not really a top up. It is the source of the best rainbow trout I’ve ever eaten.
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Well, yeah, sometimes they release extra water in order to top-up Hume. According to their own reports. That’s only one of many reasons for water releases though.
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Thanks for that link Voice – for the links to the weekly reports. This latest: At Hume Reservoir, the storage volume decreased by 99 GL to 1,594 GL (53% capacity). Snowy Hydro have been releasing an average of around 2,000 ML/day via Khancoban pondage over the past fortnight, which has assisted in slowing the rate of fall of Hume Reservoir’s storage volume. The release from Hume Reservoir averaged around 17,500 ML/day throughout the week and is currently around 18,000 ML/day. – illustrates it does not ‘top up’ – to get Dartmouth water to go down the Murray it basically has to go through the Hume Dam. It has as it says slowed the rate of fall. And that is good for the health of Hume Dam.
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I read those reports because I find them really interesting and a good summary for non-expert.
From the report for the weeks ending Wed 25 Dec 2013 & 1 Jan 2014 ‘ The release from the reservoir [Dartmouth] has been steady at 4,000 ML/day at Colemans gauge. On Monday morning, 6 January, the release will be increased to 6,000 ML/day to continue “harmony” transfers to Hume Reservoir. These “harmony” transfers reduce the risk of Dartmouth Reservoir spilling in the coming winter-spring and improve summer water levels in Hume’.
I translated “improve summer water levels in Hume” to “top up Hume”. Unless you’re arguing semantics, it’s essentially a quote.
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Basically – I think you’ll find them interesting too. There was a lot about the Barwon-Darling river system at one stage at the end of the drought – they not only had to flood it but also make sure it wasn’t flooded for too long, trying to mimic nature as much as they could for all sorts of reasons. There was also a lot about black (extremely low oxygen) water and stuff – it’s all one giant balancing act.
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It might be semantics but I’m just saying that Hume does not go up, that it is doing nothing but go down (as it always does during the irrigation season peak), that some Dart storage has to be let go (not just when it is about to spill) because why have it? But the reports don’t use the word ‘top up’ (it’s misleading). Harmony – a wonderful term that one – love it ! It’s water, it’s managed. Anyway it eventually makes it way down to South Australia with bits being used along the way. All in all it is pretty amazing. Fishing below the weir wall is interesting because there is a lot of competition from fish loving birds. You’ve also got to be nimble to climb over broken and barbed fences to find a decent position and there will be the inevitable remains of campfires and stubbies left by lazy bastards.
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You experience the pointy end Vivienne!
Not wanting to be a bore, but the blackwater relates to killing fishies. After the drought the Barwon-Whatever Forest water area was full of dead vegetation and when they allow it to flood, as they had to for other ecological reasons, this matter removes the oxygen from the water, so fishies downstream die. So they dilute downstream water by allowing water releases from other upstream sources on different river branches to dilute the blackwater with better quality water. That’s the gist of it anyway. I found it fascinating.
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Hence the environmental flows, voice. About 1/3 of the release from dams is for that reason. The Darling appears little more than a creek compared to the Murray. It’s not of course, given they used to run paddle steamers all the way to Bourke in the 1800’s. It also drains more than half of inland NSW
Have a look at google maps at Wentworth were the two rivers meet. I know there is a Lock a few hundred metres downstream from the junction but the banks are significantly wider. Interesting too is that these rivers barely flow. The Murray at Wentworth is 80 metres above sea level yet 800 kms from the ocean.
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Big M’s play nicely rings in my ears and it should in yours too if you weigh in. On my part this is a legitimate question of philosophy.
Why do we bother? Surely we bunch of misfits who blog/comment (most people don’t) do it because we imagine we will have an impact on other people. We want to air our ideas and counter others. We want a response.
That’s why Helvi’s ‘just step over it’ strikes me as odd. What does she expect when she airs her ideas on a national publicly funded platform?
Look at me, Folks! … Why is everybody looking at me?
Is it appropriate to tell others to just step over it on a publicly funded forum? To both Helvi and Jules: is it appropriate to tell the mods how to do their jobs? I’ve always been against it on free speech grounds; preferring to counter than to censor. Don’t argue with the refs is my ethic.
And why does Jules have to step over it? Helvi could step over it by not expressing it in the first place? Why Jules and not Helvi?
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Never saw it in the first place. Why continue with it? There’s plenty of OTT stuff on the Drum.
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It’s a game they play vivenne, it has no place here.
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Let’s hope the moderation from now on will be a bit more vigorous. The whole idea of Carisbrooke’s post was to be nasty and insulting to Helvi.
Helvi is never nasty.
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Yes Gerard, that’s a hopeful point though. I have had posts never get up which at worst call someone a nincompoop or just calling someone out on a lie. I’ve put a reply up to someone calling me something less than pleasant and my reply does not get up. Seems no point in complaining though so I just move on and quietly grimace at home.
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You might be a misfit SM, I’m not nor are many of those who come here. I’m here because I enjoy the debate and interacting with others I’ve come to know on line.
I find the factionalism of some tiring as I do arguments on a theme as well. Then again I don’t spend all day on line blogging either.
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Full marks to the Drum moderators for removing Helvi’s, vacuous nasty comment, intimating that I supported drownings.
They only had to be told once, and they concurred. It was disgusting and unfit from an old lady.
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You are just a nasty piece of works Carisbrooke. You will never change, forever proud of your ignorance as your hatred grows even fatter.
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I don’t hate anybody gerard. The ABC removed Helvi’s nasty comment in Jonathan Green’s blog. You know that by now, because she would have been back to check.
My comments are still there. I was swapping thoughts with Mark James a Labor Party member.
It’s no good hiding behind smileys, while secretly writing viscous comments. It’s deeds that count not smileys. They’re fake.
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LOL, please stop paying so much attention to my every word ( and deliberately misunderstanding them), you are making me look like a celebrity, I’m chuffed…
This so tedious,yawn…Please step over my posts, I do the same with yours…OK?
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Come on, kids, play nice.
Yes, H, you are a bloody celebrity!
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All that shit and stuff happening here. I thought I’ll cheer you all up a bit;
A fourth speed skating gold as Stefan Groothuis wins the 1,000m Stefan Groothuis won the Netherlands’ fourth Olympic gold medal on Wednesday, winning the speed skating 1,000m in 1.08.39 – See more at: http://www.dutchnews.nl/#sthash.aDsEdoxC.dpuf
You don’t skate a thousand metres in just a bit over one minute very easily. You’ve got to be quick!
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http://newmatilda.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=bcde3b960b33e25d0c003ebc8&id=a5035fdad8&e=5f07fcb316
Good one from Fiona Kaskauskas
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I think I got a record string of responses on the Drum yesterday and some more today before it closed. On ‘Where to Now’. Probably 200. Notice how everyone on the right studiously ignored the money flung Cadbury’s way and basically the whole subsidy issue. Why do most not give shit about car and cannery workers?
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Big Joe sounds like an ignorant buffoon.
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Most of them are Big M. Jonathan Green’s article – they’re all there saying they stopped the boats. That’s pretty well it. The country is going to be so well off now that they’ve stopped the boats (and all that shit). The GFC is all BS apparently. I’m thinking in retrospect that maybe the Libs should have won the 2007 election !
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I’m off to Rutherglen for lunch. Will concentrate on good food and forget all this shit.
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I took GO out to have a nice dinner last night, too much shit happening…did not post yesterday on Drum, had my say on Jonathan Green today…
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Great minds think alike. One bit of good new – SPC not going down the gurgler. Let’s see how drought afflicted farmers fair.
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You’re being to kind Big M, noticed he dropped his strides and started talking again this week.
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There was a ‘big joe’ making outlandish comments on the drum article about Aboriginal matters. I noticed his comment about ‘all aboriginals being scavengers’ was deleted.
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A lot of what he talks about is bum talking Big M. We could comment that all Armenian’s are scavengers but we know that isn’t true so why would windbag make such a comment.
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