The Dump is:
For posting comments that don’t get up at the Drum, and for having a pleasant, mirthful or enlightening off-topic discussion.
It’s not for personal abuse of other commenters.
Please do that somewhere else if you must.
Play nicely or piss off.
However, why doesn’t a poster add a link for us to read and comment on here, much quicker. Maybe we can do a bit more bagging here, not that I speak for the moderators, yet.
NB: Being tiresome and boring, racist, sexist or just plain creepy is not playing nicely.
———-
The Pig’s Arms exists because a dozen or so years ago our other favourite playpen – the ABC’s Unleashed blogsphere started to go off. Like a sack of prawn heads in the sun. Something had to be done.
Moderation was taking forever. Comments seemed to be rejected randomly – outrageous ones appeared and reasoned ones were pinged. When they released the Drum / Unleashed ….. things actually got worse !
So many pieces from professional writers appear with no obvious merit. And the moderation has become, to put it frankly, appalling.
As a former contributor and a commenter, I was deeply disappointed at the plummeting quality from our pre-eminent media empire. And I resented so many challenging or dare I say, witty or funny posts in which we’ve invested seconds of our precious time – getting the chop.
So here, for all our benefit – is an open slather blog. Copy and paste your best rejected comments here for posterity. Does not matter whether you’re posting on the Guardian, First Dog on the Moon or wherever else.
And sprinkle pointers to the Pig’s Arms amongst your comments. Let’s try to rescue some of the old faithful.
Cheers,
Emm.
Window Dresser's Arms, Pig & Whistle 
I reckon the mods are on strike at this Drum this arvo. Nothing happening.
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They seem to stop during the day Viv. I call in siesta time, liquid lunch, sleep it off, start again.
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Bugger all up by mid afternoon, now a few hundred on Mungo’s. Those bloody ‘lawyers’ mustn’t have much to do during the day!
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I think they need to rename the drum to ben the lawyers blog.
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Ben the dick’s blog, or Ben the bent dick’s, or summit.
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About right M, gets more that his fair share
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How can it be that Realist gets 25 comments up on one article and I get one ?
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Realistically!
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He is everywhere. There is a plot.
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I think my moniker must be mud!
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Change your name to Stuffed Olive the Lawyer, you would be sure to get all sorts of drivel posted.
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On the Abbott Wrangles article – everything stopped and one of my very good answers did not get up but one later one did. This morning I see the conversation resumed – without me obviously. It’s now closed. I now despise Dr Goh.
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He’s a swamy bugger that Goh, Like the “politeness” of the “thank you for your reply”
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I was going to mention Goh. He seems to get great long diatribes published. He commented on an article about cycling and safety. He claimed, repeatedly, that ‘according to gaming theory’, cyclists would be safer on the wrong side of the road. ‘Have you ever ridden a bicycle, Dr Goh…no, then shut up!’.
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Perhaps one could add other wankery lie “Sir or Dame” befrohand or “the (inser profession hee) or from (whatever city here). Not to mention adding 2014 to the end.
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Or perhaps one could spell beforehand and insert or here correctly before posting! 🙂
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You’re not suggesting that some folks’ on line handles are just a tad pretentious, are you? Sir/Baron Algernon the Engineer/Surveyor, 2014.
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Funny you might say that Big, I was going to try and post something along those lines under one of the other pretentious lot and see what happened.
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Well I am A Woman of Many Talents but I think people would take the piss on that.
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I did try posting as Dame Dr Algernon Engineer 2014 (there’s a limit in the length of the name) but it hasn’t got up.
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I did post as ‘man with a masters’ when the dog walker was banging on about how he’s almost done a masters because his wife and kids have them…he still didn’t get it!!
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Of course one isn’t a Dr, and I suspect all those who say they are the whatever aren’t either. Tried telling him that most of the Gold Coast was built below the 1:100 year flood level due to White shoe developers (of which he’s in awe) and a corrupt government (couldn’t possibly be true and didn’t happen as it was before he arrived). He tried telling me it was OK because Engineers had told him that they’d measured it. When I pointed out that a Surveyor was the only one who could measure anf give a legal definition and that a Hydrologist were the only people who could determine them, he told me I didn’t know what I was talking about.
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Yes, Algernon, Liberals seem to hold ‘developers’ in high esteem, when, in all honesty, they are glorified real estate salesmen, who manage to evade proper diligence regarding input from engineers, surveyors, hydrologists, and any other ‘university educated expert’, who, like climate scientists, are there to stick the flies into the ointment of progress. All of that white-shoe, Gold Coast development is a prime example. We have the equivalents in the Hunter built on undermined ‘never to be built on’ land.
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Perhaps there’s the opportunity for canal development in the mine subsidence areas around Newcastle Big, Work a treat on the Gold Coast, All the houses will flood in a major flood event and they seem to be a playground for the Bull Sharks, Must be something in that.
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Realist is something you wipe off your boot before coming inside. You on the other hand are a quality person.
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Further to Drum stuff – Marius Benson article. The twerps there trying to say that the ABC never ran anything negative on Rudd/Gillard. I nearly went bonkers with the constant stream of negative stuff and nothing on Abbott in the way of criticism on lack of policies. Always led with Abbott said …. his attack on Labor etc etc.
But the worry is that there is this concerted attack on the ABC from Abbott et al and their supporters – all part of the plot to get rid of anything they don’t like (education, health etc). We live in dangerous times.
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As a matter of interest:
APM:
09 Jun 2014 2:53:06pm
Realist, The Left cannot find any Labor style monumental failures to attack so they have to resort to playing the man, making stuff up and whipping up a sense of crisis. The Left media is not even practicing journalism in its group-thinking frenzy to deauthorise a PM only months after an election. The SMH online had a headline on Saturday that said something like ‘Abbott Embarrasses Australia Overseas’. In the story itself it was reporting that Labor said this. There was no valid story. These sorts of deliberately misleading headlines abound and there is usually little substance. Its all one eyed attack with symbols, dirt, lies, and crap that people in Iceland laugh at Abbott – what they really imply is that only stupid people voted for this government. Its a sort of deranged Twitter style rage of the Left talking to the Left. These people are barbarians and are much more guilty of hate and intolerance then their opponents who they try to silence and ban and bully.
Vivienne would have replied: This is exactly what all the MSM did to Gillard and Rudd day in and day out. And you have the nerve to get upset when it happens to your lot. People in glass houses …….
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Good answer Viv
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Gee Algernon, you are on fire over at the Drum. Hope Mrs A has a fire extinguisher.
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And SO, they let you say something, unbelievable.
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Got them all up today, so nice to see Alfie and Realist making complete and utter dicks of themselves
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Pity the mods are having a snooze at the moment though.
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They doze off middle of the day
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Cripes, I just came here to say Algy has hit the jackpot and see you beat me to it Hung.
Remember the day/date Algy – you done good !
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Carving them up Viv and like I say they gave you some shots as well, well done.
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I’ve noticed the dog walker has come back making a goose of itself.
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He’s good at it
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It’s still at it cutting and pasting as usual.
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Only just had a look at the ABC, and the Pigs’. Viv got a few short punches in, but Algernon had ’em on the ropes. wearing them down with rabbit punches to the abs, then the occasional upper cut out of no where. Great stoush.
Yes, the dog walker just reiterates text from the ‘Young Liberal Guide to Politics and Conservative Economics’ Circa 1950 (out of print, for all but the most conservative).
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I enjoyed the outing. Will have to wait until later in the week to have another go.
The Dog walker was getting bogged down on words then heading off on a tangent. Nothing new there. Pity they weren’t on top of the debate let alone the argument. Looked rather silly I thought.
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Unfortunately the mods have a long nap when I am trying to post something. I had two others which never made it and one which came up hours later after I’d turned off computer. Algy kept on scoring. I’ve just read you know who’s drivel. No doubt he is reading the Dump as I write.
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I not commenting much there anymore, seems out of sync
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WOW!
I replied to so someone in Tiananmen article, hit the send button and refreshed the page, and BANG! It was there within 3 seconds !!!
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I got up 4 posts this morning on the Drum. Annabel’s piece. Different mod who approves of my pseud.
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Seems I’m banned from talking on Turnbull.
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It appears that I have been banned from commenting on Paula Mathewson’s article today.
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Aha ! you are not the only one ! … Me too.
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Too late now but I should have used another pseud. It’s just closed to comments. It was a dreadful discussion (ha) though – the righties going gangbusters with lies, irrelevant garbage and then some. Probably better off out of it.
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Helvi:
04 Jun 2014 3:41:40pm
Agree Miowarra, I’m always preaching civil behaviour, but I don’t think that good behaviour should be prerogative only of the Labor-siders, it ought to be practised by all sides of politics.
After reading your post here, Viv, I tried my luck and sent two posts to Paula’s blog, the one above got up, the one that didn’t was more biting.
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Yes, sometimes is like being sprayed with shit.
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It is so frustrating, BigM. 15 articles in two days .. I posted 5-8 comments/replies to 2-4 articles and only 3 went up !
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…whilst wearing a lace raincoat.
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c’est le moins que l’on puisse dire (to say the least)
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Has everyone seen the YouTube on Abbott – the American one. It’s wonderful. Obama will be better prepared now.
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Saw it, loved it, watched it twice, it’s all there, even Keating! Thought the same: this ought to prepare Obama for the meeting…
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Helvi – it made my day this morning. My shopping and errand day. I was in such a good mood and to cap it off when I got to the fishmonger he has the best and plumpest Sydney Rock oysters as well as Blue Swimmers.
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Here it is – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3IaKVmkXuk
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🙂 🙂
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Priceless Viv priceless
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For a bit of light relief.
http://www.ellistabletalk.com/2014/05/30/24274/#comments
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I really only wanted to copy the video on Abbott which is quite hilariously put together by ‘Dali’.
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Thanks, Gez, hilarious and all true.
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Very good had to watch it on youtube though.
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Coogara:
29 May 2014 2:39:10pm
Helvi:
Many multi generation Australians have all kinds of ancestry including South Sea Islanders and Chinese. These people define what an Australian is. We should always allow in all races who can fully contribute and integrate into Australian social and cultural values. Those people who can’t which might include some Europeans, we don’t want.
Alert moderator
Helvi:
29 May 2014 3:04:15pm
“Australian social and cultural values”
If one of those values means that we are happy to treat poor asylum seeker inhumanely, if the people looking after them , keeping them safe are going to extremes and murdering one of them, THEN you might not have to worry about keeping them out, many will not want to come here, not even when invited.
In Italy they had funerals for the drowned refugees, that’s a sighn of country’s good values.
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Sea Monster:
29 May 2014 4:57:52pm
Good for the saintly Italians! Pity they didn’t let the refugees who survived attend. Pity they they did let their oppressors attend.
Move on folks! Nothing to see here! No racism in Europe! No Sirree!
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Helvi :
29 May 2014 5:50:23pm
SM, no need for song and dance; no one here is saying that racism only occurs in Oz, no one is saying that we or the Italians or British have to take them all, all I am saying: treat them like human beings, process them speedily on mainland, and please let the kids to go to school when all this is happening, make sure the adults are safe too.
Do not assume they are all criminals, the one who killed Reza, sadly is..
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Sea Monster:
29 May 2014 6:14:18pm
So what’s the relevance of the funeral then?
Some people here ARE suggesting Australians are more racist than Europeans. And bizarrely that the stridently racist and nationalistic party in Denmark is worse than the LNP which is a vigorous advocate of perhaps the world’s most diverse and multicultural immigration policy.
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Helvi:
29 May 2014 7:34:20pm
So what’s the relevance of the funeral then?
You need to ask, respect for people, they are human beings, not some sea monsters.
Alert moderator
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The answer to avoiding S/Monster’s and Coogara’s spiteful replies would be to write under a pseudo, as she/they mainly save(s) up their gall for Oosterman & Co, even though many are writing exactly the same but why deny them the joy of bullying, they/she obviously have some need for it.
“You give back what was given to you”.
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“You give back what was given to you”.
You know gerard, there comes a time when that excuse starts to wear very thin. A lot of people make excuses for you because your family were poor immigrants who copped some abuse. I’m with them to a certain extent; most people would get angry under those circumstances and you wouldn’t be the only one who never got over it.
The sad and stupid thing is, you’re targeting the wrong people. The reason your family were bullied by Anglos is – that was largely the established group when you arrived. Same as immigrants to the Netherlands from different cultures being bullied by the Dutch.
Most of the people who tried to bully your family would be DEAD now. You cashed in on the inner Sydney real estate boom, they probably died poor. You win. If you can’t move on from it at least try to stop wallowing in it.
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It is still strange and I don’t go looking for it – but so often Gerard you make a comment which is echoed by others but you always get a serve from Sea Monster. On one occasion I actually gave him a serve back but it never got up.
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I know,I know Viv,
There are days that out of the blue someone is sniffing through the underpants of my own blog, forever hopeful of some tit- bit that he/she might use to inhale in order to denigrate or bully us. Word-press do have handy little links to history and tools that shows up those that have been sniffing around and at what. Of course, ABC Drum is aware but can do only that much.
It is so tedious. I should not have reacted. Thanks Viv. You are on track.
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atomou was spot on (and EXTREMELY polite) when he labelled you and Helvi the tag team, gerard.
Helvi’s stalking this guy on the web, following him at the Drum making random comments, pasting up extracts of what he’s written at the PA, and according to her comment here some time in the past week, actually contacting the editor of the Drum to make accusations about him.
Just a week ago Helvi made other insinuations about him at the PA https://pigsarms.com.au/untied-united-home-of-the-rejected-unleashed-comments/comment-page-48/#comment-92227. Although what she said about him can’t be disproved, classic smear tactics, 30 seconds in google shows that what she said about HERSELF is an outright lie. A quick google of helvityni shows she’s used the name at 2 other sites; and that’s just the first page of results.
Meanwhile gerard’s over here trying to claim Sea Monster is bullying THEM. Now this slimy piece of unpleasantness about sniffing underpants, full of vague insinuations.
Do you pollute your own web site with this stuff, gerard? In any case, how about showing some respect for the Pigs Arms and keeping it out of here?
It’s all so freaky and one of the freaky things about it is how practised it is.
Get. A. Life.
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Only 2 pages of results and that’s it Voice. One of the problems of having a profile for certain websites is that others use the same system, e.g. discus is used on IA and is now used on my local newspaper (it used not to be the case). The name and gravatar follow one around whether one wants it to or not. To correct that one must delete all cache and cookies and later re-register which is a pain in the arse. The PA system is different but it too is used by others. The Guardian stands alone (so far).
It’s for you to be so picky about Helvi and so forth but I find it totally amazing that you have gone to the bother you have and I wonder why. Helvi can express her annoyance at what happens on the Drum and you can just leave it alone. No empathy – it’s sad.
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Thank you for your concern about the bother, Vivienne. 30 seconds on google. I’m not complaining. I don’t see objecting to a blatant lie as picky, and if google caching catches someone out, more power to it.
My empathy is directed to Sea M* and the other oosterman targets. Not surprising really, as you would be well aware I’m one of them.
Helvi is entitled to air her annoyance here, I’m entitled to air my disgust. Her husband has a website – do they pollute that with their absurd personal vendettas? Is that the purpose of The Drum? In my view – not.
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Bother. I meant to say “Is that the purpose of The Dump?” Not The Drum.
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I think someone else trying to pretend to be you (impersonating etc) is the higher offence than a slip up of the fact that a pseud has in fact been used on Ellis’ blog. You’re ignoring the main point as you often do. I prefer to help and not hinder and avoid backhanders.
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Used at Ellis’ site. Used at No Place For Sheep. And that’s only from the first page of google results. The slip up was saying something that could be checked instead of sticking with unsubstantiated innuendo.
The Helvit Endland comment – it certainly looks like a reference to Helvi. It doesn’t look even vaguely like someone pretending to BE Helvi.
Algernon is the only person here who has legitimate cause to think someone is pretending to be him at the Drum. I don’t see him using it as ammunition for unsubstantiated innuendo, let alone accompanying it with a lie to boost the effect.
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Right. There are only two pages and I saw the other one but did not feel the need to name it – I was actually not happy mentioning Ellis. There are no more. But quite frankly it is none of your business and snooping and still carrying on is silly.
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Yep. Fact checking is “snooping”, writing about the negative outcome is being “picky”, and responding to complaints about it is “carrying on”.
Oh well, none of us is perfect.
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In this case I agree. There are times when discretion should come first. It does not require fact checking Voice and what you have done is belittle for no good reason.
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Than you Vivienne. It’s lovely to have the benefit of your impartiality, wisdom, and fairness. I don’t deserve it.
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Oops. Thank you.
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Surely I don’t detect sarcasm !
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Tara Moss Article:
Lehan Ramsay:
30 May 2014 1:37:03pm
“It’s true you know, I am super intelligent and super hilarious and the men just treat me as one of their own.”
Reply Alert moderator
Alfie:
30 May 2014 1:53:09pm
“Me too.”
…..
My reply to Alfie: “No, Alfie. You are just hilarious ! ”
BLOCKED! What’s wrong with this ? …and I tried second time too…
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Absolutely nothing wrong with your reply, hph. I saw the Lehan /Alfie exchange, wanted to say something cutting or funny, felt lack-lustre and didn’t say anything…I have given up on humour, the Drum is a predictable, boring place. I miss the old Unleashed.
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So do I Helvi, so do I…
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I read a lot of the comments and despaired at the garbage coming out from the usual suspects. Do they ever really read the articles? I sent in one comment which never appeared.
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Too many posts by two or three posters accepted; it’s unfair and boring; Id like to hear many different voices, opinions. Many of my favourite bloggers have disappeared…
GO wrote a very funny one for the North Shore blog, did not get up. I almost believe you have to be abusive to get published…no humour allowed.
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I posted about 15 on that blog and got 5 or 6 up. My strike rate is normally better than that. there was one at the end I notice from Sir … from Lindsay, Who thinks those in Western Sydney aren’t educated and quotes the Housing commission suburbs. The art of conversation has all but gone there and the mods certainly don’t help. Plus ca change.
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Algernon, I agree with your comments regarding the Western Suburbs. I grew up on the Northern Beaches, which was essentially a working class area in the 60s and early 70s. Many of us were driven away by the high prices of housing, which literally exploded in the 80s, with house prices increasing by five to ten percent some weeks, with rents following (albeit more slowly).
Do people like Ben the Solicitor think that everywhere, bar Northern Sydney, is populated with ignorant morons, who should be tied outside some village and stoned?? Seems like more of that ‘born to rule’ mentality!
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Big M i grew up in Hornsby and people seemed to look down on you for some reason. They of course were from Wahroonga, a suburb with the greatest collection of people walking around with their heads up their arses. Of course there were two parts to the suburb the 8 streets with money and the rest. The money people were fine it was the rest. The “Nors Shore” has only got worse for mine.
Two of my kids are educated at UWS with one at Penrith. That one is making a short doco with a group about the misconceptions about Sydney’s West. I also work with many who live there all of them well educated. sure a different attitude to the East by that is changing.
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All this snob and yob stuff, educated and uneducated. Then there are the ones who don’t know how to use their brains, don’t have comprehension skills and have no enquiring mind. But you know ‘country folk’ get a raw deal and get categorised. So many of us live in sleepy villages, we’re all disadvantaged, we don’t go to uni much and of course the farmers who cop it from all directions. Many very smart and clever people live in the country but too many have one huge fault – they won’t vote anything but Liberal or National even when the Lib/Nats are kicking them in the arse. But they did a turn round in Indi. We are a weird mob.
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Yes, Viv, I know. A mate of mine is an amateur astronomer, who has degrees in neuroscience, medicine, and a PhD. He reckons the the person with the best grasp of astrophysics in Australia is a sheep farmer way out in the country, with a f#$% ing big telescope and clear skies. Prof. Brian Schmit may have some thing to say about this!
Some country folk, can, of course, be snooty too!
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So they exist in the country too Big, I thought Snoots existed on the Nors Shore.
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Yes, they do, Algernon. My Dad and step mother live on the Central Tablelands, where Snoots are rife.
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I was aware, Big. Was a funeral a few years back, bit of a Big Chill moment, where the friends of my youth all gathered. One had moved to the Central Tablelands and made interesting comments about a city at the edge of the slopes.
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Algernon, when Dad retired they started going to various social functions, fund raisers for local facilities, and so on. One bloke introduced himself to Dad as Dr so and so, ‘but YOU can call me Sir.’
Dad asked if that was spelt ‘cur’.
Don’t think they got on so well.
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Big I go to Dubbo often for work and some of the people I work with are just as snooty as anyone I meet. Most are down to earth fortunately. But the snoots are really parodies of themselves. Mrs a grew up in Margaret River a place when I first went there I thought magical but now I’d bulldoze after the snoots moved in. Her father was the Principal of the local school but ended up retiring after the snoots started moving in and carrying on.
Call me “Sir” what a wanker
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Yes, Margaret River should be magical, but the cockheads bring it down!
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She was telling me that he had to call a child’s parents in for bullying. The parents bought the Lawyer in instead. At 59 he said enough as he could then take long service then retire. That was 30 years ago. I mean how dare some snoots snoot be accused of bullying. I haven’t been there for a few years but the main street had changed and was full of businesses selling overpriced shit that they think might appeal to the tourists.
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That depends on your hopes for the kind of person your child will grow up to be, algernon. People who want their child to get away with hurting others – in a way, they are abusing their own child. I guess they just don’t see it, or they don’t see it that way.
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I think you’re right voice. It seemed like a sledgehammer approach to me. Most bullies apparently have low self esteem. Perhaps the parents thought they had some sort of power here. I suspect it doesn’t help the child though.
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They ‘me too’ through and no yours ! WTF. Look, yet again, proof that the mods on the Drum are crazy, bonkers or lazy or something strange. The time lapses tell a story too. Other stuff going up and I eventually find one of my comments up there hours later.
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TGU must miss me when I’m not on the Drum because he follows me so closely whenever I appear. He hates me but he can’t keep away.
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There’s a lot of backside talk from the nut jobs today. I’ve got a few up but none since this morning.
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Alge, all mine got up yesterday, today I sent only one, have not checked yet it got up…
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I’ve got more up evenings this week than today when I’m off. 5 in total. The nutters are getting worse. don’t know why I bother sometimes.
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Yes, Viv, there seem to be many obsessive posters over there, we all have our very own haters…
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Alan Kohler’s Article:
James: (replying to Lehan Ramsay)
29 May 2014 1:43:39pm
What is disappointing is that there is a shift in thinking that says only a university education is worthwhile. if you are a plumber, hairdresser or policeman you are not really educated but if you have a PHD in underwater basket weaving then you are elite educated person.
I have three tertiary qualifications most of which are useless. My 27 yo son has a certificate 4 and is earning about $150,000.00 per year. Go figure.
………………………….
My reply to James:
“James, we are bringing in Diesel-Mechanics to work at the mines in W.A., on 457-visa from ZIMBABWE !
Boilermakers from ROMANIA !
Nurses from PHILIPPINES !
IT specialists from INDIA !
(What is this “certificate 4” ? …for Property Services?) ”
…………………………………
Didn’t see the light of day. I think they have an LNP-moderator at the ABC_Drum on Thursdays.
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Continue to let tripe through and keep the good stuff out.
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The friend of White shoes has got itself into a bit of a tizz over uni funding I notice. I wonder where he pulls some of his information from at times.
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That recalcitrant rotter! If the moderators permit, I have administered 6 of the best. Unfortunately with that public school background he’ll probably only enjoy it.
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I quite sure he would. Hide like a Rhino
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I read all of those posts last night, at work. He fails to even comprehend his own posts…yes, six of the best is too good for him.
Plus he said that Australians and Mexicans are the most indolent people in the world.
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Not that I give a shit.
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Julian’s looking for a good argument – one where his nonsense is shot down in flames, as opposed to one where HE is shot down in flames. Or even better I suspect, one where he IS shot down in flames but in a good-humoured way. I think he’s being a bit unrealistic about this though – the more you bait people the less likely you are to get a good argument.
But he’s a very naughty boy making those kind of national/racial generalizations.
On the positive side, I’ve picked him up on it a couple of times and he hasn’t tried to shut down criticism by slimy means – such as accusing me of being mean to him because he’s an immigrant, or by spreading lies about me online, or by accusing me of bullying. So I’m less inclined to take personal offence than I would be for someone who responded in that way.
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I disagree, Voice, posters here, and at the ABC play the ball in response to his idiotic rants, yet occasionally end up playing the man out of sheer desperation. I’ve picked him up a few times when his premise has been entirely fallacious, yet have received no response from him.
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Big – sorry to hear that. I got the impression things might have got quite heated at some time before I resumed commenting here … oh well, sorry you guys never quite resumed cordial relations. That’s how it goes sometimes.
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Voice, I don’t mind debating, but I’m used to each party actually reading and comprehending the ‘evidence’ they use to defend their argument. JlL consistently fails to bother to read the material in his links, or, mostly at the Drum, just sprouts unfounded crap.
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“I’m used to each party actually reading and comprehending the ‘evidence’ they use to defend their argument”.
Where did you get used to that and is it online so I can go there?
The devolution from the good-humoured Julian London hardly occurred in an ambience of polite, reasoned argument, did it?
I’m (pretty) sure Julian won’t be upset with me if I agree with your assessment of some of his posts, since I’ve already given him my honest opinion about it.
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No, this isn’t online, this is the world of work, in health care where we debate what is best for the patient based on research papers, etc. It’s what I’m used to doing. Most of this online stuff is bullshit, especially the Drum.
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Julian
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Wot, HOO?
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In that case Big, we all have cause to be very grateful you are used to reasoned, evidence based arguments out there in the real world. I was pretty sure you weren’t talking about the usual situation online.
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Voice, kudos to you for maintaining the rage over hecs,help,whatever, repayments. Changing the terms of a student loan midway is diabolical.
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Christopher Pyne. Not the most sympathetic of characters at the best of times. Today on The Insiders, in answer to this question:
FRAN KELLY: Just to be clear, though, those students who are enrolling now or next year, they will be repaying their HECS debt at the higher rate, won’t they?
he “misspoke” as follows.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Anybody who was enrolled before May 14, nothing will change in terms of their arrangements.
When asked to elucidate
FRAN KELLY: So the HECS debt will always stay at CPI into the future until it is paid off.
he replied
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: They are grandfathered until they finish their courses, which is by 2020 in most cases.
So I guess any audience member who didn’t know the facts wouldn’t have a clue they are proposing retrospective changes to HELP repayment terms, or might have the impression that something’s going to change around 2020. Even I, when I heard 2020, thought that’s not as bad as it might have been, that’s 6 years away. Of course then I realised – BY 2020. So yeah, that bit’s actually true. Because 2014, 2013, 2010, … they are all BY 2020.
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Voice, I don’t know how Pyne can believe his own spin. How wuld deregulating university fees lead to lower costs? How does altering the repayment conditions of an existing HELP/HECS debt mean that nothing has changed? Does he think the sky is red?
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That’s the way propaganda works, Big M. Keep repeating the same things even though they’re false, even though what you say a few seconds later directly contradicts it (but only if the audience is listening and thinking hard).
Meanwhile the students are busy sabotaging themselves by providing the media with video opportunities of politicians being jostled and harassed by students. They are babes in the propaganda woods.
Pyne – I think he and Abbott are zealots.
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The zealot comment – he doesn’t NEED to believe his own spin. He only needs to believe that his is the right and true Way and the end justifies the means. Pretty much par for the course these days, with media personalities (whatever happened to journalists) cashing on with gotcha journalism and “brave” insolence. They’re all in the same game.
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Of course, Pyne’s comment about universities being forced to do research is mere ‘red tape’ beggars belief. He may change his mind if he realises that much of that research generates income.
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They share Dawkin’s neo-liberal view of what the university system should be – mass training businesses. There’s some room for doubt about whether Dawkins actually was neo-liberal; he might just have been too stupid to realise the inevitable outcome of his “reforms” and too arrogant to listen to those within the system who told him.
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More from Pyne: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-02/pynes-education-gaffe-draws-fire-from-opposition-greens/5492838
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Well anyone can make a mistake.
You apologise, you correct any misunderstanding that might have arisen from it, and you move on. Not even an Oopsy from Pyne.
Some mistake.
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Makes me think that some of this budget was drawn up on the back of a beer coaster.
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Nuh. It’s a zealot Budget. Probably been dreaming/planning the details for decades.
Nice of them to remove the obligation of Universities to do research. Perhaps we should remove the obligation of politicians to make laws. Allow them the freedom to simply debate in Parliament if they so choose. If they choose to make laws the cost should be deducted from their salaries with repayments indexed at the 10 year bond rate.
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Yes, that research is a bugger. I was reading an essay by Brian Schmidt, Nobel winner for the discovery of dark energy. He is part of a consortium of three unis, the CSIRO, and a couple of companies who export about half a billion dollars worth of astronomy equipment a year, but that pesky, red tape, bloody research isn’t doing anyone any good!
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What a bludger.
But compared to pure research, such as that done by Albert Einstein, he begins to look almost worthwhile. Then there’s those pure mathematicians playing number games. They invented something called matrix theory. Later, to the horror of some other pure mathematicians, this turned out to be useful to another lot of bludgers – theoretical physicists, sitting around on their backsides all day making up weird theories about the world. Theories that eventually led to such inventions as lasers, electron microscopes …
But that was quite a while later. Now we all know the important thing is that research should make money for an institution within 2- 5 years. Otherwise why should the community fund the elite bludgers to elitely indulge their elite curiosity?
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Yes, some of them came up with a useless thing called the internet.
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As guilty as I feel l about liking a comedy program by some pipsqueak upstarts under the age of 60 – I agree with The Roast’s take on the Pyne Misspeak Incident. (And I also feel quite motherly towards that Tom guy on The Roast – the others are so mean to him.)
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Now I’ve just had a thought that REALLY makes me feel guilty. I’m all for the Gen Ys. But I can’t help the thought of their kids in 30 or so years – “Your generation had it soooooo good. Anyone could go to University. Fees were regulated and you even got HECS indexed by the CPI. We DREAM of student loans indexed by the CPI.”
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I posted many comments to a lot of articles since yesterday evening, maybe 8 -10, and none of them showed up. Then I sent one to PM Newton’s stupid article just to test it and – bang! – it went up !
go figure !!!
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Chaz:
27 May 2014 2:59:22pm
Ah yes Air America, but by claiming what you claim it would seem you didn’t read the book.
AA ceased to be decades ago during a time call the Cold War.
…………………………………
Hey Chaz, Air America did not cease. It evolved, you mullet head ! 🙂
Read the book : Drug Trade and Air America
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From Crikey.com.au:
Hi Bludgers,
Tone here. I sold my arse to be Prime Minister of Australia. Whoo hooo!
Anyway, you’re probably wondering why I’m writing to a bunch of ‘progressives’ like you lot.
Well, winker I may be but I also love a fight, which is what I get from Crikey. They still believe in facts and cogent argument and I’ve always loved history myself.
As for those ‘independent journalists’ over at News Corp, they get my goat. What’s the applause of a bunch of sycophants really worth anyway?
I know I’m PM and all that but I still struggle for meaning. Thinking of my enemies gets me out of bed in the morning. How else could I face Malcolm Turnbull?
I sum it up like this: Crikey keeps me on my toes while Chris Mitchell washes my smalls. That’s a pretty good reason to subscribe to Crikey Insider I’d say.
There’s another, too. I’m still going to screw you so you need to be careful with the pennies.
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Just a general observation over at the Dump. The ring wingers seem to think that lying is okay as long as it is their side. What utter hypocrisy.
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What’s new??
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They still can’t argue/debate. Few of my posts get up so I’m more than pissed off (still). Need to take a different tack. Try to make stronger statements and let them froth and drown on their own with their lies and drivel.
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I’ve almost given up Viv
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It’s the usual drivel, the same arguments from the 1950s, and the same dispassionate dis-concern for those less well off.
The pommy was saying that the Labor party don’t care about pensioners because they pay the carbon tax. Is he not aware that the previous government overcompensated pensioners for the CT, as well as brought it in line with current inflation rates?
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Pontificating about road maps he was. I must be remembered that the economics isn’t its long suite.
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I write one or two, I say my bit and leave, I’m not hanging around waiting for abuse, let the Liberal rats fight without me 🙂
I complain when and if they let someone post under my name again
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I had a big day in town with shopping and errands. Raining all day so got wet a few times.
I have put two comments on new articles just up from Berg and Donnelly. I’ve used a new name. I’m sure you will pick me out – if I am posted by the nutty mods.
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Viv, I spotted you and so did someone else 🙂 Donnelly’s post was just copied from the stuff that has been said by others, I agree with him, but deliberately turned it to politics…
When watching news tonight the heavy rains started…bloody hell, as I had put a load of washing on the line, nothing I need urgently but still annoying…
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Yes, the water bloke is obviously reading every comment here at the Pub. I had assumed that would be the case. Strange man.
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Mean spirited, I suppose the Pigs Arms Liberals are shitty about Martin Hamilton -Smith teaming up with Wetherill…
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He remains a nutcase. Had to name me Vivienne in Berg’s piece. Imagine going to the bother of reading all the psueds to find me and then to reply with a irrelevant words.
Have you given any further thought to getting a tumble clothes dryer. Mine is currently in action. Still wet here. Tanks full, gutters were overflowing.
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Viv, I have a dryer, but as it has been so dry here, I automatically hung mine on line. I have to say I prefer line drying, everything looks almost ironed…
I have not had a chance to carefully look for your pseudo, I saw one but I’m not sure yet…
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Good old Julian; it’s lovely to see he’s still keeping a weather eye out on what he’s missing. And now he knows.
I wonder if George ever peeks in from time to time?
Sigh.
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Yes, I still miss dear old (or young) George. All of his pieces were fascinating, although his idea of having deep fried chips with bum nuts over the top sounded a bit crazy!
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I’m feeling sick, I just read some ugly posts by Evil Pundit and Googara on the Drum, and I wonder what has happened to these people to make them so nasty, almost evil…
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The guy’s a complete nutter, Big M. But only in the nicest possible way. I’m glad he’s out of harms way. Not that he can’t stand up for himself; more than capable. But Life’s Too Short.
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Only used La Lola twice (Berg and Donnelly). I was testing it out. But decided against it at least for the time being.
Lucky you Helvi that yours comes off the line so well. Not the case here. I pulled the pull-out line out 20 years ago. I used to have bugs setting on it, or so dry it was stiff as a board.
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…but then, Voice, I read that Maryanne Faithfull used to have chips ‘n’ eggs with her old man, when she was a little’n.
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What, another one! They’re everywhere. It’s a big scary world, Big M.
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Helvit Endland:
22 May 2014 1:21:45pm
The most vulnerable, is the most overused phrase of the last 3 years.
The most vulnerable are catered for surely?
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Obviously the usual suspect trying to write on my behalf again, it’s also obvious it’s one of Piglets as it’s only here that I write under helvit(yni). Strange vindictive person, no need to tell me who it is.
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And the same childish IT bullying from the usual suspect;
dutchy:
23 May 2014 7:34:21am
The best thing for Bill Shorten is to sit back and give Tony Abbot enough rope to hang himself.
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D-N-H-F:
23 May 2014 9:04:45am
We Australians have a sex negative attitude and don’t like prostitution. Prostitution is bad and will only get worse under Abbott. Australia sucks!
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dutchy:
23 May 2014 7:56:48am
I always thought that Tony Abbot was not all there and he proved that to me now. What I never could understand is why they dumped Turnbul
Alert moderator
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I have also sent a personal email to Chip Rolley, explaining what’s happening, it’s simply cyber bullying. See what he has to say.
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You have my support Gerard and Helvi
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Thanks Hung One on.
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Thank you Hung and hph.
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I noted those at the time Helvi and Gerard. I’m still flabberghasted at my getting only a couple up on Friday, just as bad as Thursday. I’ve always got a few stalking me (APM) and hours after I put a response to the nonsense posted it doesn’t get up. I’m still stewing on whether or not to write to Chips again. Also can’t understand why the good article on Sloppy Journalism goes up after 5 pm on a Friday. Again, WTF.
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I’m frustrated just as much as you are, Vivienne. Thursdays are particularly bad for me. I noted that it’s the same for you. Whoever is the mod on Thursdays, sure doesn’t like us. What is surprising to see is how much breathing space is given to the same right-wing nutters. Even their irrelevant, utterly stupid, illogical and banal comments & replies get thru. Grrr…
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They get through in bucket loads. Triple grrrr grrr grrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Dear Helvi & Gerard, never mind them. “them” < = Dissociative identity disorder. 🙂
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hph, I check the posts on the Drum without reading them, when I see the usual Liberal fanatics, zing, Bev, Curious Party, John, custard and ben the lawyer and the rest of the sick copy-cats, I usually leave without saying anything the company is beneath me…
(of course not the Labor siders) 🙂
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I don’t expect all my comments to get up on the Dumpy Drum but only one out of five is a bit rough. Been the same all week. Also I must say that there are too many articles going up on the same day. If they haven’t got enough staff to moderate why increase the articles so much?
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The other ‘side’ are writing the most pathetic stuff. Really don’t deserve any responses.
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Had a brief encounter with that ex-UK water bloke. Same old.
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Just read it, the usual shit. It’s like the flat earth society debating with astrophysicists.
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With the usual cross checking
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or was that cross dressing
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Yes, and a massive debate, too.
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I wrote one excellent factual comment on Mikaela Davis piece and I see it never go up. Heaps from the Ben the Lawyer, Zing et al and they’ve closed it for comments. WTF ! I submitted mine when there were only 12 comments appearing.
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Vivienne, go to The Link. I put a link there to Mikaela Davis’ blog. You can post your comment up on her page. I did 🙂
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Thanks for that hph. But I won’t. I wanted it on the Drum. Basically I disagreed with Mikaela. I thought Mirabella got what she deserved. This violence thing is rubbish beat up. Loud vocal protesting is not violent. For the worst abuser of our Parliament I reckon Mirabella got off lightly at the student protest. She used every opportunity she had in Parliament to disrupt, offend and not do as directed by the Speaker. Her presence as a lecturer is an insult to all lecturers – she has nothing to offer, unless it is a lesson on how to brown-nose your Leader and get promoted and get cushy jobs when defeated in your own electorate. I have nothing good to say about the woman. I’ve met her. She was rude too me. I was there as a Board member of a well known corporation – it was a book launch on the history of that corporation. She also arrived late, ate fast and left early. She is truly nasty.
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Re: Mirabella- I agree with you totally. Mikaela is a naïve young woman, and I dare say, by her response to my comment, she fancies a job in a big organization at the big-end-of-town . (she has not experienced any hardship in her life yet.)
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Yes hph – your comment went right over her head. Students who don’t agree with protests or don’t protest usually just keep quiet. Only one who is already politically aligned would write that article. So we know where she is really coming from.
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I’m not so sure about her political allegiances vivienne. The socialist alliance is a pretty blunt instrument when it gets going. Mind you heckling that grub is all fair as far as I’m concerned. The Elder is a second year media and communication student, so about the same age as the Mikaela Davis. The elder is mad about this and she isn’t at all political. She would have marched except she had a lecture which finished at 2 and the march started at 2:30 plus she had a 50km trip to get there. Mind you If I knew about the March I would have. As I told her the art is not to get arrested those at the front are there for maximum effect and expect to get arrested. The problem is if it becomes violent and that’s where the protesters lose.
The younger who is political is mad as well as she’s the cost of her degree about to go up. It affects her more than the elder who should have finished by then. One can only hope this abomination will be blocked in the senate along with the cruel social measures.
And lets hope a double dissolution to consign this the worst government in all our memories to the rubbish where it belongs.
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Algy, no doubt we will hear more from her. “My dream job is to be a fashion/lifestyle/travel journalist” she says. Mikaela also filmed the Sophie event and it was her video which all the media used. Apparently it went on for 25 minutes but only a couple of minutes at the end is used which from what I can work out was when Soph arrived. No doubt we will hear from Mikaela again.
In her article she wrote “It’s time to start stimulating debate without menacing fists and personal attacks. Let’s show politicians what we’ve really got to offer: informed opinions and passion. We’re not just fighting for us – we’re fighting for the next generation.” Unfortunately the only way the debate got started properly was by the protests, including the strong line taken by the Socialist Alternative mob. Frankly, without that action her own article would never have been written or appeared. Mikaela needs to use her new found (potential) fame to write a critique of Pyne’s whole policy. She’ll need to do a lot of reading and study of the Budget Paper No.2 to unearth the whole story. Same goes for the Environment and Landcare and Health. Did you know that Dutton has pinched $1Billion from the Health and Hospital Fund and plonked it into the new Medical Research thingy.
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PS Algy – all power to your girls. I’m just relieved that for the first time ever my daughters were not financially stuffed by a change in government both having finished all their tertiary studies in recent years. But daughter No.1 is in the research field which has lost a lot of CRC funding as a heap of sectors have been cut out.
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Yes it has Mrs A and I thinking how we’ll at least make it a level paying field for the younger, given she’ll do at least two degrees and maybe a third. The elder is toying with doing a Masters but that’s next year same for Junior.
Its the footage that brings her the 15 minutes of fame. Looking at the bit that was used it was the others that moved on the SA demonstrators not the SA demonstrators that bought the move on the grub. All they were doing was being vocal.
I agree she should do a follow up piece on the whole shabang. But I take her point that violence will get nowhere. Admittedly my activism was with the No Dams campaign in Tasmania. It was entirely peaceful and it was violent attacks on the likes of Bob Brown and others that turned a lot of thinking around. That and the dam would have been the next best thing to useless for generating electricity. However it was the likes of SA infriltrated towards the end who had me walk away from The Green’s.
Without the footage though her blog could fail for a 4th time.
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Hey Algy – I was doing my bit for No Dams too. I womaned the local environment office and typed up their newsletter for about a year. Bob Brown came to Albury just over 31 years ago and gave a marvellous speech at the civic centre which was almost full of people. It was an inspiring time.
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It certainly was vivienne, I met Bob Brown at a rally at Dural from memory then again at the Dam camp at Strahan in Tasmania at the height of blockades. Our role there was to transport those who where to be “arrested” and the daily cricket matches with the police prior to the TV cameras coming for their daily footage. I was part of the team that manned the No Dams table at Hornsby every Saturday. I also had as you know Liberal friends (my oldest friend is still a well connected Liberal (a term he uses very loosely nowadays and is probably as left wing with some differences as I am now). We managed to get the local young Liberals to get a motion up at a federal branch meeting to force the Local Member to cross the floor and vote against the dam in Tasmania should it get to a vote and failure to do so would have meant the branch would not have endorsed him as the candidate. I might add that got up with over 90% of the delegates voting for. In the end Frazer called the early election and the rest is history. My first march down George Street I remember as being daunting but emboldening and marches after that where.
My first boss was the Chief Surveyor on the Snowy Scheme so it made for some uncomfortable moments at work. I was in my mid 20’s and he his early 70’s. I respected the monumental work he’d done there and discussed the environmental issues at length.
That the elder even considered marching an how fired up she was during the week, well I was proud.
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There was no marching happening in Albury. But the turn out when Bob Brown was here was so good. A lot of the people involved have since left the area for various reasons. The environmental office staggered on for some years (about 10 I think) and then closed. No one to keep it open and not much in the way of visitors. Sad.
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I don’t post many these days Viv, Joe Legerdemain gets a few through.
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Okay, I give up, as a crossword fan at 3 am when on night shift I came across this Legerdemain = slight of hand or a trick therefore Joe(Hockey) Legerdemain is a trickster. I can see you where all losing sleep over it especially you Gerard.
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Darn
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No double darn
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hph:
16 May 2014 3:52:58pm
Yeah, we’re all in this together on this Land of Milk & Honey.
Some people are milking and the rest are getting stung.
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Stuffed Olive:
16 May 2014 4:24:14pm
Excellent observation hph.
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I guys, I’m Joe Legerdemain this week or Sir Bill Bored. Anyone heard from the unnameable one?
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I’m rarely getting through. I’ll look out for Joe L.
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I’m full as a goog – magnificent Lebanese tucker. My fab daughters with me and hubby the chauffeur. Good stuff all round.
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The Manet painting featured in my 5th Birthday piece is featured in the Aust Guardian as the top in a Top 10 list of ‘unforgettable faces in art’. We’re all class here at the PA.
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In second place is the Mona Lisa !
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Whose Mona Lisa?
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That da Vinci guy. I always thought it pretty ordinary.
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Ah behind the louvre door. Little picture behind glass in a dark room.
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At high school my history teacher nick-named me Mona Lisa, according to her I always smiled, never mind if my answer was correct or totally wrong.
The town’s Swedish high school was full of handsome boys, according to a spy, they too used to call me Mona Lisa.
I expected to be full of wonder when I finally saw the painting in Paris…I was terribly disappointed 🙂
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Exactly so Helvi. It was such a let down. Give me a Picasso any day ! It has a reputation and just how it got it defies logic.
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For those who didn’t like Chris Uhlmann on the ABC’s 7.30 Report go here to read interesting information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Uhlmann
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I thought he was ignorant and rude. Above his station is another phrase that comes to mind.
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Definitely rude. He was biased with his questioning – extremely hard on Labor and soft and gentle on Liberals. I kept yelling at him to eff off. When he went it was a relief. Did you read the bio on him Hung – his past experience and venture into politics as a far right conservative git.
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Yes I did Viv, doesn’t surprise. I wonder how he will respond to the magical world of Abbottrey
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Yet he’s married a sitting Labor member. Somewhat of a paradox.
He does tend to pussyfoot with the tories.
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