Croesus - Claude Vignon
Chapter 8: Gifts for the Gods
by Astyages T2
The baggage-train was a dazzling sight; a dozen ox-drawn wagons, piled high with all kinds of valuable gifts, including many items made of gold, silver and purple, not only for the Pythoness herself, but also for her scribes and priestesses and even for all the people of Delphi. This colourful caravan was escorted into the broad courtyard of the Temple of the Oracle by a pair of temple guards and the herald whom Croesus had sent to Delphi to put the king’s questions to the oracle.
Seeing such a huge and wealth-laden baggage-train, the Pythoness realised immediately that Croesus was evidently hoping to purchase the favour of the gods by such lavish gifts. Mortal humans are so stupid in their conception of the gods, she thought to herself; as if they could be bought! The minds of the gods could be known – at least partially; that much she knew from her own personal experience; but they most certainly could not be bought!
Not that this attitude was uncommon, as the Pythoness had realized a long, long time ago; indeed, she knew that most people felt this way; and that her own thoughts on the nature of the gods were quite exceptional, not to say unique and these, her deepest and most private thoughts, she had long ago learned to keep to herself. Indeed, very early in her training she had realized that virtually all of the people, noble or commoner, who came to inquire of the oracle, were trying one way or another to purchase the gods’ favour for their own purposes; and they did not like to be told that this was impossible.
Although personally she knew perfectly well that such an attitude was both foolish and superstitious, the Pythoness felt not contempt, but rather compassion for those who came to inquire of the oracle. She realized that, superstitious or not, in such a harsh, unpredictable and uncontrollable world, it was not only understandable, but perhaps even inevitable that mortal humans should thus try to influence the actions of their gods; it made them feel a little less insecure to imagine that they actually had some chance to control their destiny.
As the bodily vehicle through which the oracle gave voice to its often highly enigmatic and occasionally impenetrably cryptic prognostications; the Pythoness would stand with her arms outstretched to receive the god, completely entranced as the spirit took possession of her, right on the very edge of the precipice over the bottomless pit in which dwelt the god.
It really was, she thought with amusement, a marvellous piece of theatre; and after a lifetime of training for the role, her performances never failed to impress. Speaking in the strange and incomprehensible tongue of the gods she would deliver the oracle’s response to the enquirers’ questions. These incomprehensible words, which came into her head directly from the very minds of the gods themselves, were then interpreted by one of the other entranced, priestesses and then written down on a small scroll of papyrus; finally the oracle’s miraculous pronouncement was given to the often dumbfounded inquirer.
The Pythoness’ own knowledge of the oracle was thus unique. Until her soul passed back into the void, when she would by replaced by another Pythoness who was even now training for the position, no-one else, she knew, would ever understand how intimate this relationship was; infinitely more intimate than any merely physical or corporeal union; psyche to psyche; mind to mind and soul to soul; with no physical sensation at all, only a spiritual awareness so deep that, as soon as any question was asked of her, its answer sprang directly into her consciousness.
She knew with absolute certainty that these were not her own thoughts, but the thoughts of the god; for in that instant, in the deepest ecstasies of her trance, her mind and the mind of the god met and were as one. It was the depth of this spiritual perception which alone enabled her to find in her heart the compassion she needed to ignore the greed and stupidity of almost all who came to her seeking her advice; and to phrase her answers in just such a way as would lead them into the best course of action in order to resolve their particular problem; or at the very least, to their spiritual advancement, in those all too frequent cases where what was wished for was not possible.
But it was only natural for mortal humans, she thought, to thus attempt to control the very gods themselves; after all, since they themselves were all too often influenced by just such trivial inducements as fame, power, material wealth or physical pleasures and comforts, it was perfectly natural for them to assume that the gods, too, could be swayed by such things, imagining the nature of men and the gods to be the same. What humanity didn’t seem to realize, however, was that the nature of the gods was vastly different from anything their mortal minds could possibly perceive; and that, from the perspective of the gods, nature was what humanity was put upon the Earth to rise above, although pitifully few of them ever rose to the challenge.
The Pythoness knew with absolute certainty that such trivial things as trinkets and baubles, more precious than life itself to mortal men, were meaningless to the gods. At some level, she knew, all ‘spirits’ were one; one Great Spirit, or ‘God’. But on earth the various and infinite aspects of this Spirit; this ‘God’, was, at least in appearance, separated and divided into the myriad forms of creation and the various natural and supernatural agencies which eternally govern the physical world; divided into both gods who both control and embody all natural phenomena; and the spirits of individual humans; who were invariably completely deceived by the illusion of their individuality and their apparent separation from both each other and from the Creation. Rarely, if ever, did they ever realize their fundamental spiritual unity with each other; let alone their even more fundamental unity with not only the Creation, but because that Creation was itself the physical manifestation of the Divine, with God himself.
Window Dresser's Arms, Pig & Whistle 
I have to confess, T2, that I have been reading for shape, fluency and to spot errors in the text – as opposed to the content – somewhat excessively, lately.
In this piece, I read for pleasure as well and as I said for Waz’s piece, I really enjoyed it – admittedly from a very limited knowledge and understanding of the form of the literature.
Shall I see it as slightly allegorical, or is it mainly allegorical ? Are these historically seen as lessons for driving the better behaviour of the audience, for maintaining the social order as we see in other fables like the Bible ? For helping the audience sort out our ethical dilemmas; for assuaging our concerns over the capriciousness of life ?
Or am I merely laying my own meaning over a rattling good yarn ?
I watched Bettany Hughes the other night – I have to admit in the same way as I might watch Nigella Lawson. I admit that I have never cooked anything, because of Nigella’s culinary expertise, but I do admire the way she licks chocolate sauce off her fingers.
Sorry I got a bit off topic then. Hmmm. Chocolate ……. and ruination I amphora, but possibly not for the right reasons.
Welcome back, me.
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I saw the Bettany Hughes program too, Emmo and I saw what I expected to see: vision, vision, vision! That and time, time, time are the two tyrants of documentaries and news. I remember reading another the book of another Hughes, an artist Robert who, in his intro of The Shock of the New (when was that, late 70s? 80s?) lamented the fact that his produce would always argue with him because what he wanted to say had little “good television” (I think were his, or her words). His views would only be uttered loudly if there was vision to back it up.
It’s the same with Bettany. Instead of actually talking about the Athenian Democracy, she spent 99% of the time narrating bits of Greek History that had bugger all to do with the political phenomenon. The reason for that was the same as that given by Robert’s producer: On TV, vision rules!
So, it was good “vision,” just as the rather chubby Lawson is good vision but one would have learnt little about the topic advertised by Bettany. Democracy is not about the Battle at Salamis, just as plunging and unplunging a chockolate dripping index finger in one’s mouth, with a lascivious look in one’s face, is not about making an eclair.
Now that I think of it, there was also a brilliant ABC comedy series called, I think “Front Line?” in which the person who played the producer, a New Zealander, died half way through the series. I seem to remember him uttering rather forcefully, words to the effect, “we need,vision, vision and more vision!”
It’s TV, it’s like a horse with the reins firmly in its mouth. Vision (and then time) dictates all.
I love the chatty shows that the Campus lady, Geraldine now has going, where people sit around chatting about all sorts of things. No “vision” to distract you from what they say and, if it so happens that you’re interested in the topic and in the views of the participants, then the show will be a success for you. We need more such shows… Peter Thomson’s “Talking Heads” also appeals to me.
The beginning of your third paragraph is missing a noun, by the way and it’s killing me. “a little…” what? Being ill and all, my imagination is quite fluffy!
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On that basis, I forgive you for your spelling of “chocolate”.
And the allegoricality ? Or would that be allegoricitaceousness ?
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I think ‘slightly allegorical’ is sufficient, Emmjay. These were primarily ‘histories’… ie. tales of the greatness of heroes; yet they were often used to carry moral messages too… Were they used to maintain social order? Undoubtedly, to some extent at least, as it was always to be hoped that citizens would emulate the courage and wisdom of their heroes.
In my own retelling of this tale, I have consciously used the tale of Croesus and the oracles to get across my own thoughts on the pointlessness of oracles. As Lao Tzu says, “Foreknowledge is the flowery embellishment of the Way… and the beginning of folly!”
But mostly it’s just a ‘rattling good yarn!’ And I’m glad you think so too!
🙂
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Gracias, T2
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Ato, while I can sympathize with your apparent dislike of TV’s tendency towards ‘vision, vision, vision’ (all the more so because of an ‘overwritten’ and as yet unproduced screenplay I’ve written called ‘Creeping Jesus’, but that’s another story!) I think we should not despise Bettany’s program too much for this.
Where Nigella’s chocolate-finger-licking may have been a tad gratuitous, there is at least some point in Bettany’s vision… I find it very useful and informative to be able to see, for the first time in many instances, the places and topography of the region which we non-Greeks have only read about; it puts some flesh on the bones of our understanding of the ancient tales.
And the battle of Salamis DID at least have some effect on broadening Athenian democracy, if I’m not mistaken… so perhaps it does deserve a mention; and the fate of Themistocles does have something to say about the weakness and manipulability of democracy, not to mention how fickle and unfair the people’s treatment of their heroes can often be.
I have great sympathy for your ‘pillow to post’ regime (nice twist on the original ‘pillar to post’ phrase, btw…) since my own regime has been much the same for the past three months or so; but I can’t help but think it’s making you just a little frustrated and that perhaps this frustration has soured your judgement at least a tiny little bit… otherwise you may well have had something a little more positive to say about Bettany’s prog…
For myself, I can’t help but wonder why, at this particular historical juncture, we find ourselves presented with an analysis of democracy, which reveals its inherent inconsistencies and contradictions… to the extent that we can only wonder if such a beast as ‘Democracy’ is possible at all…
Anyway, I do hope you’re feeling a bit better today, and that you will be your ‘old self’ again very soon.
🙂
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Amen to that ! Enough medicalement chez le Pig’s.
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Asty, I don’t necessarily despise, Bettany’s programmes. I get what I expect from them which is just a wee bit of info and a great deal of vision.
The battle of Salamis could have been mentioned in passim, not with the detail of where the ships of either side were and how the wind was blowing on that day. It’s good viewing but it’s not about the issue. If the programme was called -I don’t know- “Certain bits of Ancient Greek History” then I’d be satisfied with the result; as I would also be satisfied if it was called “The Tourist’s guide to Ancient Greek Historical Spots,” since, I suspect, the Minister of Tourism in Greece would be very hospitable if not downright slavishly accomodating to Bet and her crew, since tourism always spikes after such shows. It just looked that way to me. An advert about Greece with a bit of info thrown in to catch more viewers.
But, without wanting to bore the pants of the rest of this delightful pub’s patrons, I will admit that I do feel highly agitated and frustrated with this endless health adventure I’m heaving at the moment, so I could well be unduly critical, cynical and unfairly derogatory even!
But about Democracy the programme was not.
It’s a common enough problem for doco makers, as I said before. They want to show a visually attractive show, not one filled with nerdy heads looking all profound and and punctisilious. After all, they’d tell us, if we want to know the real, full deal about the topic, we should buy a book or go to Uni or something. Anything but watch the telly, which, in many homes, is situated in their “entertainment room.”
So they over produce and over direct the vision and neglect the facts…
Ok, I’ll shut up about it now.
Oh, I need forgiveness also for some other stupid thing I’ve done, asty! Damn it! I’ve gone to your blog and, instead of sending you an email with my thoughts -which weren’t at all derogatory but were “in-house” (so to speak) I’ve written them there as a reply to your Virgil work!
Please do take them down if you feel uncomfortable about them.
Other than that… I am summonsed by a stern voice!
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“Allegoricality” seems to have a “k” missing and just too many lamdas but it’s slightly more better than mainly word -too biggish that one, and not enough Kapas!
Gorrrrrd I’m bored with this “pillow-to-post” regime!
I shall rebel!
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Ato, I know what you mean about a ‘pillow to post’ regime…
On Monday I actually managed to leave my flat and hop (literally!) on a bus for the single stop to my local post office.
This is the first outing I’ve had other than to take taxis from my front door to the hospital, and although I was absolutely buggered by the time I got home again I was very pleased with myself…
My mobility is slowly – Oh so very slowly! – returning! Now I find that I can even put my foot on the floor for up to half-an-hour before it becomes too uncomfortable…
Next Tuesday I plan to attempt the trip to David(‘don’t call me Junior’)’s place to gradually resume something of the gym regime we used to have; although I won’t be doing too much actual exercise while I’m there; getting there and back will be plenty of exercise for me for the time being…
This, however is an adventurous trip which involves two buses and up to 2 hours either way (on my bike it only used to take me 20 minutes!), and a fair amount of hopping at either end… but I think I can make it! (Remember that little red train, “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can…”)
I hope you manage to regain your own mobility soon too… if good wishes have any healing properties at all, then you should begin to feel better very soon, as I’m sure all the piglets will echo my own sentiments!
At least you have Mrs At there to look after you… for most of my week I don’t even have anyone for company outside the Pig’s Arms… which may explain both why I’ve spent so much time here since my accident and the prolificity of my posts… (how ’bout that for a word, Emm?)
Anyway, believe it or not, I think your frustration and desire to rebel are actually good signs; you still have the strength to desire to rebel, even if you don’t yet have enough strength to actually do it!
But Aesclepios and Chronos, between them, will soon sort us both out, I’m sure… so take it easy, my friend, and remember why it is that the people doctors and nurses look after are called ‘patients’… Because they have no choice, but must perforce be paitient!
Kalispera!
🙂
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I mean of course, that this was the first outing on my own; thus I do not count my excursioin to Cafe Primo’s with Paula White et al… largely because I didn’t do that one ‘under my own steam’, so to speak; thus Monday was the first outing I have made under my own steam, since I came out of hospital…
🙂
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Lovely concatenation of Pythonian thoughts, Asty.
The gods cannot be bought but you try and neglect your “duties” to them and see what happens!
What? No hekatombs to Zeus? Baaaaang!
No hekatombs to Apollo? Baaaang!
Haven’t performed the proper rituals on the temple of Aphrodite? Baaaaang! (or rather, no bang for you!)
You don’t believe in Bacchus? Cop that!
The gods must have their festivals, their sacrifices, their reverence!
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Here, my Hermes, have this libation I have poured out for you in ouzo, along with a prayer for your well-being; that your health returns. Wishing you ‘long life and vigour!’
🙂
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I’m glad you like my ‘Pythoness’ too, atomou; she is entirely my own creation, though I have based this character on what I could glean of the real Pythonesses’ from Herodotus… But he doesn’t give may clues, so the ‘education of the Pythoness’ which I describe is largely the result of my own imagination of what might make a person qualified for such a position. I hope I have not taken too many liberties!
I realise that tradition has the Pythoness tutored by Apollo himself, yet Herodotus speaks about ‘the gods of the abyss’. From what I’ve read, snake cults in general have much to do with the process of prognostication and their priestesses are often prophets too. I can only imagine that the Pythoness represented a snake cult, perhaps the Cabeiri’, (worshiped among others by Olympias, the mother of Alexander) or perhaps some similar cult, were the ‘gods of the abyss’ that Herodotus mentions.
In any case, I’m quite sure that there must be some connection between snake cults and Apollo; because, as snakes always come out to warm themselves in the sun, this was, most likely taken by the ancients to indicate their ‘worship’ of Apollo… Perhaps they felt that in the meditiation-space this morning warming-up of their blood provides them with, Apollo endows them with the oracular gifts which they then pass on through the Pythoness, whose name surely can’t be insignificant?
This is, of course, pure speculation on my part, but it seems to be not entirely without merit. I’d appreciate your thoughts on this, abeit briefly, if you’re up to it atomou!
🙂
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“…doesn’t give MANY clues.”
Sorry!
🙂
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Quite right about the snakes and Apollo, Asty. The oracle (shrine) of Apollo at Delphi, was “guarded” by a pet snake, the god’s favourite animal. Much has been conjectured about its presence there, including all of what you said about them being lovers of the sun, thus of light, enlightenment, knowledge, wisdom, openness, etc, all totally opposite to the characteristics modern societies give them, characteristics which are born out of the fact that they are poisonous and that they tend to appear before you when you least expect them.
Alexander’s mother! Now there is a cult-frenzied woman! All sorts of cults, all sorts of madness swirled in her soul. But then again, them were the ways at Philip’s palace. Nor a sane man or woman amongst them. At least not until Aristotle went over to be the young Prince’s tutor.
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You know what I reckon, miri? I reckon it’d be bloody great if we can get a collection of myths from around the world! Anyone who has any knowledge of any myths -I’m talking to you, too, Celts!- should post them up here so we could make some comparative anthropological studies. Asty could well help us with his academic background and open up some sturdy discussion… at least that’s what would add to my sack!
What d’you reckon?
Is Sheherezade playing the music on a CD or on a musical instrument?
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Piano.
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I knew it!
🙂
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Perhaps, if you like, atomou, and if I get the time, I could relate some tales of the Tuatha de Danaan? Or some of the Arthurian myths?
Come to think of it, they’d make a fine contribution to Astyages’s Weblog too!
If Chronos grants me enough time…
🙂
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I’m still dealing with the notion of “adding to your sack”.
This may take a while. My minds eye seems caught in a feed back loop. Its oscillating between visions of the great indigenous constellation, “The Emu”, the head of which is located at The Coalsack Nebula, and for some reason I’m hoping will become clearer, pairs of kiwifruit dropping in slow motion and bouncing on a surface of polished stone.
Amazing what your mind sees while it should be seeing something altogether different.
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Mirri, you’ve put a chuckle into my heart. Thanks!
We all carry sacks… some call them “baggage” and it’s usually meant biases and prejudices and all sorts of malevolent stuff. I prefer to think myself as carrying a sack which I -and everyone else- fill on my little journey through life. A pear here, an apple there, a gem a bit further down the road, a nasty insult a little later, a word of wisdom later still and so on, until I cark it. Hopefully, the good bits in the sack will be passed on or shared with others before that. So, one of the things that will gratify the collection in my sack would be the learning of the ways of other peoples. Their stories, their dreams (forget Jung and all of Freud’s acolytes, Asty, they were so damned wrong, one could call them anthropoligcal criminals… but that’s another story!) their customs, ethics beliefs, events that shaped them.
So I would like to see these myths, in a sort of conversational blog like this, rather than in a book or a web site; and that would add to my sack!
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I think it unfair to lump Jung in with Freud, ato; his notions on the nature of human psychology had much more insight than the latter’s.
I do realize that the notion of ‘universal symbols’ has been pooh-poohed by a lot of anthropologists, but I feel that some of these critiques, at least, are unwarrented; all the more so as anthropology seems to have made so much capital out of the notion of the ‘difference’, the ‘alien-ness’ of ‘The Other’… an attitude which, since difference is usually, though mistakenly, taken to indicate a difference in value; ie. to both indicate and perpetuate ‘hieararchy’, it can thus only perpetuate western prejudices about the self-assumed superiority of their own ‘civilization’.
Did you know that Carl Jung also wrote an introduction to the Chinese oracle, the I Ching, or ‘Book of Changes’?
Now THERE is a fascinating book… Worthy of much study and discussion…
🙂
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Sorry, asty, I’ve lumped my response to the jung question together with the skian gates question in the Abduction page.
What I should add here, which I was in too much of a hurry to add there, is that I should apologise for my dogmatism about the subject, since I’ve had no anthropoly background at all. I did a few units on Psychology which brought me to those ” modern mystics” but that’s it. Which is probably a great paradigm of the aphorism, “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!”
I haven’t read -at least I don’t remember reading- Jung’s intro to I Ching, though I have read the book at some point in my travels. What I was impressed by though, was Ezra Pound’s discussion of the Chinese language, his own translation of “the Book of Odes” (I think it is called) and culture and his reference to Fenollosa’s work (an essay on the chinese characters). The 70s were feverishly intellectual for me! You’d have to climb a huge ladder to reach me. I was floating through the 7th Heaven and beyond! To quote Cicero, “O tempora o mores!”
🙂
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Jung’s introduction to the I Ching is to be found in the Richard Wilhelm version, translated into English by Cary F Baynes; this is commonly regarded as the ‘best’ version of this ancient Chinese classic. Reading the I Ching, however, is perhaps not the best way to understand it; the best way to do this is to use it for the purpose for which it was designed; ie. as an oracle.
I’ll answer your other points on Jung under the relevant post.
🙂
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You been reading my mail T2? This Pythoness has some ideas that sound alarmingly close to those I’ve put into the mind of Mirriyuula a few episodes along the track. Am I gonna hafta rewrite it now; or should I simply conflate the two characters into a composite and crack two mythic markets in one story?
That’s the trouble with originality. Its never all that original and even when it is it doesn’t last that long.
Hey ho, ho hum.
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I don’t think you need to change your story at all, Warrigal; indeed, put alongside the other myths discussed at the Pig’s Arms, it would be a good example of the ‘comparative anthropological’ approach atomou has just advocated and requested.
The similarities between these ancient mythologies are possibly partially explained by Carl Jung’s concept of ‘universal symbols’; because the various demands of the human condition is much the same the whole world over, people have a tendency to think similarly about their world and their own place in it.
Now at first sight Australian Aboriginal culture and Celtic culture may look very different, but some of the problems they faced were inevitably very similar and hence some of their myths and mythical characters, as we have seen, can be remarkably similar; this is what I meant when I said that ‘the more I look at other cultures, the more I see their similarity, even within difference.’
🙂
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