This is one for the legal division of the Pig’s Arms. Anyone that has ever driven kids to schools or cubs knows that the preferred method is by mums with very large black coloured cars.
Well, once (ones, for you Emm) upon a time, a long time ago, an old granddad took it upon him to also drive. Not in a big black one, but in his modest Astra 1600cc grey station wagon. It had recently been fitted with a tow bar and even more recent with the electronic harness. This harness cost more than the car, almost. This drive was to take grandson to his cubs.
While reversing in a parking spot at the cub’s hall, granddad noticed a menacingly large and black vehicle. It was also being parked. There was, during the parking a slight nudge by Astra’s tow-bar ball to the front of this monstrous black car. It was one of those cars that could easily have had a small pool or heli-pad on the roof or in the boot. I am pretty sure it had an internal staircase or lift-well. Anyway, as big the car as small the lady, all hysterical and shaking with rage.
“You vely, vely bad dliver” she said. “My car shaking, you damage, you damage”. “Show me license, you hit me.” I somewhat sagely reminded her that nothing much had happened and no damage done. Yes, but you vely bad, vely bad she shouted. She then demanded my license which I, always the well mannered driver, produced, even if just to calm her down. We both delivered the cubs and drove off.
Her car, as it turned out a: Holden Lexus RX 450h Sports Luxury 4d Wagon insured for $80k=.
Nine months later, as always when precautions are not taken. A stern GIO letter demanding $ 1530.00 or” the debt collector with dire consequences will take all your possessions, garnishee your wages”( ha ,ha, ha, from ABC’s income will take 2054 years) The letter assumes I am liable. I never have car insurance, never apart from motor bike accident 50 years ago been involved with any accident.
Now, the legal eagle from the P/Arms advice por favore:. Should I cough up, seeing I saved thousands not having car insurance? Or……… Should I rear up and subpoena the lady driver to court, (whose address I never took) and take her to task of getting the whole front of her car restored and remodeled at my expense? She obviously used her insurance to get every blemish or fault fixed. I never was involved or informed of any claim.
I remember Maurice and Blackburn solicitors giving me a handy break on some dodgy share dealings involving GIO and a class action by thousands of other shareholders.
This is of course a different issue and perhaps to save stress and time off from shit and stuff, should, as Emmjay so aptly put it: bend over and cough up? Much obliged and ta. You can send the bill c/- Hung-One. PO Yo. Pig’s Arms legal Aid.
Window Dresser's Arms, Pig & Whistle 
People are real arseholes over tiny car dings – because tiny repairs cost the f*cking earth and insurance costs are sky high.
I’m just a bullshit artist with a cyber pub, but I reckon Gez has not been given procedural fairness (three quotes etc) – ignoring his probable innocence anyway. So the insurance company is up shit creek trying to extract the dough through legal channels.
AS soon as you say hello to any lawyer the meter is running and a simple exchange of letters to discuss or dispute anything costs $300-$400. So it does not look like either GIO or Gez would want to go that route.
I’d write to the GIO directly denying culpability. And see what happens. Cost to you is zip plus a stamp – for which you may even receive peace of mind.
Insurance companies are not fond of (insert racial prejudice here) drivers who flap over nothing either. I once knew a skip cop who routinely booked crashed drivers with poor English because they were unreliable as witnesses, nobody understood what the fuck they were on about, they wasted everyone’s time and caused him no end of paperwork and the odds were that nobody from their home countries had ever won at Bathurst or any grand prix and hence they were culturally and genetically unsuited to be on the road 🙂
If it was me, I’d deny deny deny – and when I got tired of the game, I’d offer them half their denmand – no a quarter first and then come up to a half – to piss off – still denying liability but – that makes legal action even more unattractive.
Remember there is always a discount available.
That’ll be a slab of Trotters for my time. Thanks. OK a six pack will do……
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My sentiments exactly, Emms!
Pay them nothing!
I think it’s an ambit claim on their part, anyhow. They’re trying Gez out. They haven’t got a legal leg to stand on.
I’d also pay a little visit to the local constabulary and ask them the legalities of someone attempting to steal or to extort money or goods from you. They ought to have a more detailed view of the issue.
A debt collector is not a sheriff.
What happens if you refuse to let them enter the premises?
Then I’d represent myself in court. I did it a couple of times and both times, the Magistrate was very helpful and on both occasions -both against cops on alleged traffic violations- I won.
It’s not that forbidding, though I had been to court many times as interpreter and was acquainted with the environs.
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Yes, I wrote them GIO Debt recovery division man, denying liability and for good measure included my impeccable driver’s record except for speeding once in my 924 porsche back during my Balsa Board surfing days.
I’ll keep you all informed.
GIO lost a packet when Maurice Blackburn took out a class action against GIO on behalf of share holders. GIO lost and had to pay out mozza dossa. I reckon they are now deperate to recoup some from me, a poor senior..
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This minor bump, would be treated knock for knock if you were both insured. However, as you are not, but didn’t admit liability, you can treat it the same way, IMHO.
Just write to her insurance company pointing out that it was her fault, as she wasn’t paying attention and she barged into you while you were stationary; contemplating what to do as she got closer and closer.
A stationary vehicle always wins any dispute!
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Were there any witnesses. If not, then its probably your word against hers.
If its not on a public road then it gets murkier. I think it goes along the lines of each looks after their own. I also think it might cost the insurance more to chase the money than it would be worth. Maybe they’re trying to cover their loss.
I had an Indian woman back into me in a fruitshop carpark once she tried to claim it was me and pointed to damage to her car. There wasn’t a scratch on mine. I pointed out to her that the damage on her car was old and on the wrong side for impact and told her that she was the one that backed into me. There wasn’t a mark at the impact. The accident well no more than a love tap and no damage to either car.
Took Junior for their driving test last Friday. They almost passed but in the end the tester chose to fail them. I had no issue with that and rightly so. Junior will have no problem next time. At the registry, there was a Chinese person (their passport was Chinese) was given an automatic fail for stopping in the miiddle of a roundabout, it would appear for no reason. This person had an argument with the tester for about two minutes and didn’t seem to get why they’d failed.
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“I had an Indian woman back into me in a fruit shop carpark .”
The thin end of the wedge, my friend.
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I didn’t get this claim until the beginning of February, which seems to indicate that GIO might just be ‘fishing’ for a return of the money they paid out to this lady. What would the insurance cost for that type of car valued at $ 8o.000.-?
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I’ll lemebel in futule and think twice befole oldeling flied lice again.
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The more I think about it the sillier it gets for GIO!
They can’t just send over money collectors! If you dispute their claim they’ll have to take you to court. This amounts to bullying and vexatious threats! Wouldn’t go down too well in court, I shouldn’t think.
The list is bizarre! What did you hit her stupid truck with, a bomb? (Don’t answer that!)
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Sadly ato, I fear the courts nowadays are more likely to support the bullies and debt-collectors!
😐
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Courts are only for mega shit, Algy. They don’t want their expensive time chewed up on trivia.
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My legal experience amounts to f&^% all, as I used to be a JP but stopped, because it gave me the sh$%s.
Anyhoo, I’m gunna lean on the bar, imbibe a couple of Trotters, buy you a couple of Shiraz’s, agree with you, make mollifying sounds, then, after a few more libations say. “That stupid bitch can’t do that to our Gez. He wouden do that. He’s a Prince among men!” Well, that’s what I’d do.
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In public carparks, responsibility is legally split 50/50 by government decree… So you’ll only have to pay her half of what she’s claiming. I had a similar incident with a towbar once… just a dent in the license plate really, but I was made to pay supposedly for having the whole chassis realigned after my little ‘bump’ had supposedly bent it!
But, especially if you have no insurance, you don’t have a leg to stand on, legally. So long as the other party can produce a reasonable facsimile of a mechanic’s receipt for the ‘work’ done, she’s got you by the short and curlies, I’m afraid.
You will have to cough up half the money, though if you have to go to court to have this settled it could cost you more than paying the whole amount anyway in court costs and lawyers’ fees… try reasoning with her first: this IS the law so she only has the right to half the cost of damages. And good luck; she doesn’t sound the ‘reasonable’ type…
😉
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Of course, alternatively you could just ignore her and hope she’ll go away… she might if she thinks she won’t get anything out of it and it becomes too much of a hassle or if she thinks she may have to pay to take you to court… especially if there really was NO damage to her vehicle.
😉
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asty, I don’t think she is at all ‘leasonable’…
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Helvi, I suspect she’s more larcenous than leasonable!
😉
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It happened along a kerb in front of the boy scout hall on a normal street. I get scratches and bumps on my car throughout the years, just parking at shopping centres, but this lady went for the kill and had them all fixed up.
Still, I appreciate Asty with perhaps coughing up and try and forget about it. I haven’t paid insurance all those years and am I not now suffering from the very thing that I so often preach about,”terminal materialism”?
I just hate those sort of things and have lived so far without ever needing medication of anything, perhaps just a headache powder if not enough nice wine, but nothing else.
I read that people over 65 eat on average 5 tablets a day. That’s just mind boggling.
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This letter is from GIO and I did phone and explained TO-DAY that:
1. the accident was minor and of little consequence. However, they just said they would deal with it through a debt collector/solicitor.
2. That I never received any indication of a claim or letter by the lady in question.
3. I denied liability.
4. That the long list of work on the car was a ‘quote’ and not a receipt of work done.
5: That had an impeccable driving record with no traffic offences except for one speeding of 120k on the way to surfing at Bendalong with my balsa board in 1967.
65. That I am a struggling senior with a wooden leg and irreparable problems with tumescence and indigestion from bad Shiraz and suffering from deep despair with a hopeless affliction to right-handed relief from writing so much and so many articles of no importance and that the lady was a fu#ck wit and that she was too short to be able to see through the cockpit of her car even when standing on a milk-crate..
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Yep! did the debt-collector bit too! This is a wonderful way that thieves can take your money without ever a legal judgment being passed on whether or not they are entitled to it! Do debt-collectors really have such draconian powers one wonders? And can these powers really be imposed in the absence of a genuine legal decision? It shocks me that such is at least apparently the case here in Oz; another case of laws being made by thieves and bastards for the benefit of thieves and bastards!
The trick when one finds oneself in a hole, Gerard, is at least not to dig onself in any deeper…
😉
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Yes, they can.
Years ago, I was surprised to see my VW combi being hoisted on a truck. The sheriff was there and produced a bill from Holland of a last phone account that I hadn’t paid after we left Holland.
The amount was trivial but the Dutch will chase you to the moon for a six pence.
Of course, I had received several accounts but thought that surely they couldn’t do anything here in Australia. Well they did and it all happened so quickly too.
I rushed inside, didn’t have the money but a good neighbour did, and the cash was paid to the sheriff. The car, in mid air was lowered and the Sheriff took off with the money tucked under his saddle.
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Oh, and note that my legal “expertise” comes for being a court interpreter for a few years back in my previous life as a court interpreter.
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Sorry Gez, I forgot to add what Lehan and Vivie added.
Dot point iv, I think it should be, you were not given the chance to have the damage evaluated by your own independent valuer and, in any case, you doubt very much the authenticity of the cost or the panel beater who did the work.
Did that legal letter have a copy of the invoice from the panel beater and was the work and parts itemised and logical to you? Could you question it, in other words?
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Yes Ato, there was an enormous list, I’ll take a picture and post it here if possible. It is a list that goes on and on and reads a bit like a bill from a Family Court ‘expert lawayer’. They are all on the game now!
Thanks for your interest. Here is an Ouzo in a schooner glass with a nice Greek salad to wash it down with.
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ouzo in a schooner? Are you kidding? I’ll be representing you after that one! That’ll teach ya!
I also thought of a 5th dot point, namely that she falsely accused you of being a “vely, vely bad dliver!” Aside from this not being an utterance familiar to anglophones, it is also a defamation.
Also, could you dispute the “how” it happened? I mean, you were both(?) in motion at the time, so who can say what percentage of the fault is yours and what is hers? And courts very seldom award 100% of damages. It’s very near always around 70-80%.
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This might well be a bad advice, Gez, but I suggest -suggest, mind!- you have at least three options:
1: If you have the requisite calm of disposition and gut control, ring the author of the letter, ie, the lawyer and remind him that:
i: The lady in question did not point out the exact nature of the damage and that she did not indicate for nine months that she she was pregnant -sorry, I mean, that her car was damaged and that she would sue for damages
ii: That you are not insured
and
iii: That should she not withdraw her suit you’d fight the charge “vigourously” (that’s common legal parlance for the guilty -sorry, I mean those about to be hanged)
2: Write a letter to the above person noting the same points, in the same dot point form
3: Get your own lawyer and ask him to deal with it. It might make the questionable lady with the obnoxious coloured and sized vehicle, think again, though I doubt that would happen and you’ll probably end up in court, in which case, your lawyer would probably win the case for you, seeing your dot points are of arguable validity and your layer might well add his own dot points to the score.
Finally,
4:Do nothing and wait for the shit to happen, at which point you trot up to the court alone and with the requisite calm of disposition and gut control, you lay down the situation to the judge, making sure all dot points are mentioned.
If you do this, make sure you call the questionable lady to the stand and give her a little legal discomfiture. Quite within your rights.
If you lose (how could you? I ask!) you ask his questionable honour (and it would be questionable if you did lose) that no costs be awarded to the lady and that you require some many years to pay the costs of repair to her obnoxious vehicle.
Or as extra dodgy alternative, you very cautiously, throw a couple of… shit forgot what you call them… those spherical steel things with spikes on them that the knights of yore used to carry in their back pockets in case they got into a brawl at the pub, under those obnoxious wheels. But that’s a bit dodgy.
Note:
Since you did what every decent driver wants to do and that is to smash one of them obnoxious vehicles, I won’t send you a bill -and certainly not to Hungsie’s addy. He might get a fart attack and then where would we all be?
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They can’t do that! When you showed the woman your licence, did she write down your name and address? Did she just remember your name? No written notice given to you and the time lapsed would negate the whole thing. It really doesn’t make sense. If there was anything of substance to this, she should have reported the accident to the police, not doing that is an offence (in NSW anyway).
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Yes, Vivienne,
She took my name etc and also squatted down and took a picture with her mob.ph of a small dent on a piece of plastic cover, well below the bumper bar which was well above my tow-bar ball.
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Vivienne, it’s not a reportable offence, because it happened in a carpark. The Police would not be too interested in this sort of thing!
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Can they really do that? Pay to get the car fixed and then send a letter of demand having not informed you that anything was happening.
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They could also, if they were unscrupulous, Lehan, simply produce a fake receipt without having any work done at all… unless you’re willing to take the gamble that you will win AND be awarded court costs, you could find that your cheapest way out of this is to cough up, no matter how much it will sting your pride to know you’re being ripped off for sure… Been there; done that.
😉
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Well, the GIO did it and showed no willingness to engage in any resolution or compromise. I suppose the lady got paid out and now the GIO wants it from me.
Thank you for your interest. Soon the blue bells will poke through the snow,Lehan.
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Well, on the one hand, the cars these days are made so that large parts need to be replaced if there is any damage at all. A lot of people won’t bother – won’t her payments go up now, for such a small thing? – but if they do, the insurance companies won’t accept any questions.
I liked the sound of astyages advice – that the cost is split 50/50. You could look into that.
It doesn’t sound like denying liability is going to have any effect, but if that’s what you want to do – take this page down.
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It’s really interesting when you think about it. This company enters into a contract with a woman. She pays them money, and then if she has an accident they will pay her to repair damage.
Then, out of the blue, you, who has no relationship to this company, get a letter from it to say that you have to pay them money for work that you did not order or authorize. So this company either must be confident that they can win a court case against you on her behalf, or must be bluffing you.
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Yes Lehan,
That’s how the Insurance seems to operate. They are ravenous and care only about the return. The man that answered the phone did not want to go into the issue from a moral or human point of view. That has become dead.
Still, with Assenge and Wikileaks perhaps the world will do an Egypt on more fronts and society take a turn away from what is becoming more and more, an impossible world.
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What are the possible repercussions of simply refusing, Gerard?
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Oh, no need to answer that, I read above and clearly there are debt collectors to take into account. It’s a defensive position; you take them to court if you want to challenge it. Terrible.
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