So, did I just hear on ABC News that Apple Corporation admitted to having had 30% of their products made in China by some very dubious practises? Did I also hear that suicides amongst Apple workers were rampant as a result of those practises?
Who was the person saying that the Apple devices in China were not made by using dodgy and inhumane practises? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-14/apple-admits-supplier-employees-are-abused/3772594
Not all the OOstermans are that bad.
I do think he raised the bar for all and I think we’re all kind of better of,” says Bell Mobility president Wade Oosterman, who oversees all matters wireless at Canada’s second largest wireless carrier. “Another important legacy by all accounts, and my own interactions would reflect this, is that he’s left a really terrific team. They have a really tremendously diversified asset base and product portfolio – and that continues obviously.”
VL, your intermittent plaintive bleating is making me feel guilty. I can’t think of any way to make it easier for you, other than if MJ were to hire someone to display Queensland time in brackets after EST. Unless, of course, you were to find out how to subtract one hour from the time displayed while the rest of us are on daylight savings. 🙂
Voice:
You certainly are an expert in finding fault.
Finland at least reports on exploitation of workers in China. Your response by quoting last night’s interview of Mike Daisey did include a reference to Nokia. Don’t you think that all manufacturing in China is subject to the prevailing cultural conditions. My recall of the TV program about Nokia’s record of improving condition in China comparable of those in Finland is correct. I googled and within a minute found this: http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Finnwatch+Working+conditions+improve+at+Chinese+electronics+plants+/1135264182354
It proves my point that Finland is doing something.
Now, I also found this about the Apple business in China, and it did not take long either: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/string-suicides-apple-manufacturer-china/story?id=10789704
In fact, if one really investigates what goes on in manufacturing one would be wise to keep consuming of electronic goods to a minimum. Which is why I wrote about Lentils in the first place.
At least I don’t have gadgets that swipes and provides colouring in types of images with just a few seconds of relief from endless ennui provided by an army of under-paid workers and a string of suicides by Chinese (child) workers.
Look gerard, you obviously just don’t care about honesty or accuracy. Perhaps you feel you are pursuing the greater good.
Yes, it seems there is an organisation in Finland that criticises working practices in Chinese factories. So has Nokia, which would have been more to the point. So has Apple. But somehow you just didn’t find the articles about that, same as you didn’t find the article about the Chinese companies with bad work practices that Nokia uses.
I didn’t NEED to be an expert to find fault. More to the point, I didn’t need to be an expert to find that your claim was simply not true.
I read in “The Wire” that the regrettable suicide rate in giant factories producing Apple and other mainstream western consumer products – is no different from the background suicide rate in China overall. Where does that place our conscience votes ?
Steve Jobs was an incredible entrepreneur who had a vision of making people-friendly technology available.
Loved his speech. Although what worked for him in the place and time he was might not necessarily work better for someone else, and in a different place and time, than a more traditional path to success.
Not only people-friendly, but also high quality. He recognised quality ideas and supported and advocated for them. This made a difference to the lives of a lot of people. Having done that and made a motzah, it might help entrepreneurs in other industries to sell the potential to the businessmen.
No doubt Steve Jobs was a genius and may he rest in peace. But….. did anyone watch “lateline’ where Tony Jones interviewed a very large and very good man, was it Mike Daisy?, who stated that there was no doubt about the world changing genius of Steve Jobs, but all those gadgets are being made in China whereby conditions are terrible, the use of children working up to 16 hrs a day, people’s fingers and hands disintegrating….
That took the shine off a bit, didn’t it? Glad I just use my old Nokia, it doesn’t take pictures receives voice mail, cooks the rice etc but it works as a phone. Nokia apparently, like all things Finnish ( the most honest nation in the world, …go Voice) made sure their components made in China complied with the same working hours and conditions as in Finland. I seem to remember watching an ABC program on Nokia some years ago.
Already seen the clip twice. Done when he thought he had beaten the cancer, tumour thing. Watched Lateline. Yep, all made in China and that is the depressing thing for many of us. The day will come when their wages have gone up enough that the products will no longer be as competitive. It is very hard to find anything not made in China and too much of their food stuff is finding its way to supermarkets shelves. Read the labels on everything!
Viv, I watched Tony’s interview, and think that he is better doing them than being a host on Q&A, where he allows some people too much time. Jenny Brockie keeps a tighter rein on her flock.
I also liked Tony’s Hitchens interview.
Come on, gerard, that was too easy. At least if you issue a challenge try to make it challenging. Working on the assumption that you just made it up, as you do most of your “facts”, it took me two minutes to find the following news item, dated yesterday, from which I quote the following extract where Mike Daisey talks about working conditions in China (where, by the way, the worst kind of Dickensian worker exploitation is apparently rampant):
“And simple humanitarian measures that could be taken to make this workplace safe for the people who are working in it are not taken and it is because no-one in the ecosystem, not Foxconn, not the companies at the end making the devices in China, not the companies like Apple and Dell and Nokia that are requesting, that are using the companies to get the devices made. ” http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3334201.htm
What am I anyway, your personal research assistant? Next time you invent something that you hope might be true, look it up yourself!
I read gez’ comment and said that watch it, any minute now and Voice is coming back here after googling, ‘doing research’, and feverishly trying to find something negative about Nokia…
Hey, I was asked by gerard. Happy to oblige. But, it REALLY WAS easy. Not feverish.
It’s nice that you’re backing him up, but If you can spot gerard’s obvious nonsense too, perhaps you could be of more help vetting it BEFORE he posts it, or diplomatically suggesting he does so.
Of course finding something negative about Nokia would be easy, because there isn’t anyone or anything that’s perfect. Which is why it was so easy for gerard to find something negative about Steve Jobs.
But that’s not what I did. So no thanks for misrepresenting me. What I found was something that directly contradicts gerard’s nonsense claim that Nokia “made sure their components made in China complied with the same working hours and conditions as in Finland”. Working on the unspoken assumption that Finland doesn’t have the same Dickensian working conditions as in China.
VL, so according to you and Voice, googling = research?
I saw the documentary about Nokia, can’t remember if it was ABC or SBC; I’m absolutely confident that the document makers did more real research than just one minute googling : )
Whereas I am 100% certain that Mike Daisey did more research than one minute’s googling.
I don’tbother to pick up everything gerard makes up. So perhaps next time he does it, it would be a better idea not to bait me. Whatever floats his boat.
Mike Daisey has a point, Gez. And it was said that Steve Jobs was – unlike Bill Gates, no big philanthropist. But he was a truly amazing guy, flawed like everyone else, but amazing none-the-less. (He said typing on his MacBook Pro).
I’m intrigued by his partner – Steve Wozniak – who seems to have disappeared without trace. What might we learn of him ?
It was a reminder for me, Jayell. When FM was being treated for the big C, that’s how one must see life – make it count like every day might be be the last. Because as Steve Jobs said – one day, it will be the last.
It also helped remind me that in reality we have very little to lose except untaken opportunities.
Dammit! Missed the 1,000th post mark ’cause the boss snuck in and pinched it! Oh well, privileges of rank and all that, I suppose… Anyway, I’ve just submitted for review, the item I was saving for that spot, so if you’re still there Emmjay, would you mind doing the honours for me? Thanks…
Will watch your ‘Steve Jobs’ post a little later; time for tea now…
Window Dresser's Arms, Pig & Whistle 
So, did I just hear on ABC News that Apple Corporation admitted to having had 30% of their products made in China by some very dubious practises? Did I also hear that suicides amongst Apple workers were rampant as a result of those practises?
Who was the person saying that the Apple devices in China were not made by using dodgy and inhumane practises?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-14/apple-admits-supplier-employees-are-abused/3772594
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Not all the OOstermans are that bad.
I do think he raised the bar for all and I think we’re all kind of better of,” says Bell Mobility president Wade Oosterman, who oversees all matters wireless at Canada’s second largest wireless carrier. “Another important legacy by all accounts, and my own interactions would reflect this, is that he’s left a really terrific team. They have a really tremendously diversified asset base and product portfolio – and that continues obviously.”
Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/static/business/article2192884.html#ixzz1a3WzoYUS
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Oh well, off for an “austerity” lunch.
No lentils, but an Aussie home grown carbon/methane steak at Cav’s steakhouse.
C ya.
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Is it really 11:36 down there….? It’s only 10:30 hear.
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10:31 HERE, I meant 😉
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VL, your intermittent plaintive bleating is making me feel guilty. I can’t think of any way to make it easier for you, other than if MJ were to hire someone to display Queensland time in brackets after EST. Unless, of course, you were to find out how to subtract one hour from the time displayed while the rest of us are on daylight savings. 🙂
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11:15 now 🙂 Going off for lunch early. Just in case the lentil starters are all gorn.
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Voice:
You certainly are an expert in finding fault.
Finland at least reports on exploitation of workers in China. Your response by quoting last night’s interview of Mike Daisey did include a reference to Nokia. Don’t you think that all manufacturing in China is subject to the prevailing cultural conditions. My recall of the TV program about Nokia’s record of improving condition in China comparable of those in Finland is correct. I googled and within a minute found this: http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Finnwatch+Working+conditions+improve+at+Chinese+electronics+plants+/1135264182354
It proves my point that Finland is doing something.
Now, I also found this about the Apple business in China, and it did not take long either:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/string-suicides-apple-manufacturer-china/story?id=10789704
In fact, if one really investigates what goes on in manufacturing one would be wise to keep consuming of electronic goods to a minimum. Which is why I wrote about Lentils in the first place.
At least I don’t have gadgets that swipes and provides colouring in types of images with just a few seconds of relief from endless ennui provided by an army of under-paid workers and a string of suicides by Chinese (child) workers.
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Look gerard, you obviously just don’t care about honesty or accuracy. Perhaps you feel you are pursuing the greater good.
Yes, it seems there is an organisation in Finland that criticises working practices in Chinese factories. So has Nokia, which would have been more to the point. So has Apple. But somehow you just didn’t find the articles about that, same as you didn’t find the article about the Chinese companies with bad work practices that Nokia uses.
I didn’t NEED to be an expert to find fault. More to the point, I didn’t need to be an expert to find that your claim was simply not true.
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I read in “The Wire” that the regrettable suicide rate in giant factories producing Apple and other mainstream western consumer products – is no different from the background suicide rate in China overall. Where does that place our conscience votes ?
LikeLike
If one really investigated what went on in manufacturing one wouldn’t view electronic goods as a special moral category in this respect.
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Steve Jobs was an incredible entrepreneur who had a vision of making people-friendly technology available.
Loved his speech. Although what worked for him in the place and time he was might not necessarily work better for someone else, and in a different place and time, than a more traditional path to success.
LikeLike
Not only people-friendly, but also high quality. He recognised quality ideas and supported and advocated for them. This made a difference to the lives of a lot of people. Having done that and made a motzah, it might help entrepreneurs in other industries to sell the potential to the businessmen.
LikeLike
No doubt Steve Jobs was a genius and may he rest in peace. But….. did anyone watch “lateline’ where Tony Jones interviewed a very large and very good man, was it Mike Daisy?, who stated that there was no doubt about the world changing genius of Steve Jobs, but all those gadgets are being made in China whereby conditions are terrible, the use of children working up to 16 hrs a day, people’s fingers and hands disintegrating….
That took the shine off a bit, didn’t it? Glad I just use my old Nokia, it doesn’t take pictures receives voice mail, cooks the rice etc but it works as a phone. Nokia apparently, like all things Finnish ( the most honest nation in the world, …go Voice) made sure their components made in China complied with the same working hours and conditions as in Finland. I seem to remember watching an ABC program on Nokia some years ago.
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Gez, I believe it’s Mike Daisey…he’s a good bloke but hardly a daisy…a flower!
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Already seen the clip twice. Done when he thought he had beaten the cancer, tumour thing. Watched Lateline. Yep, all made in China and that is the depressing thing for many of us. The day will come when their wages have gone up enough that the products will no longer be as competitive. It is very hard to find anything not made in China and too much of their food stuff is finding its way to supermarkets shelves. Read the labels on everything!
LikeLike
Viv, I watched Tony’s interview, and think that he is better doing them than being a host on Q&A, where he allows some people too much time. Jenny Brockie keeps a tighter rein on her flock.
I also liked Tony’s Hitchens interview.
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Come on, gerard, that was too easy. At least if you issue a challenge try to make it challenging. Working on the assumption that you just made it up, as you do most of your “facts”, it took me two minutes to find the following news item, dated yesterday, from which I quote the following extract where Mike Daisey talks about working conditions in China (where, by the way, the worst kind of Dickensian worker exploitation is apparently rampant):
“And simple humanitarian measures that could be taken to make this workplace safe for the people who are working in it are not taken and it is because no-one in the ecosystem, not Foxconn, not the companies at the end making the devices in China, not the companies like Apple and Dell and Nokia that are requesting, that are using the companies to get the devices made. ”
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3334201.htm
What am I anyway, your personal research assistant? Next time you invent something that you hope might be true, look it up yourself!
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I read gez’ comment and said that watch it, any minute now and Voice is coming back here after googling, ‘doing research’, and feverishly trying to find something negative about Nokia…
Please Voice, don’t be so predictable 🙂
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She’s just being thorough. Something that gerargd could have been. Surely?
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Hey, I was asked by gerard. Happy to oblige. But, it REALLY WAS easy. Not feverish.
It’s nice that you’re backing him up, but If you can spot gerard’s obvious nonsense too, perhaps you could be of more help vetting it BEFORE he posts it, or diplomatically suggesting he does so.
Of course finding something negative about Nokia would be easy, because there isn’t anyone or anything that’s perfect. Which is why it was so easy for gerard to find something negative about Steve Jobs.
But that’s not what I did. So no thanks for misrepresenting me. What I found was something that directly contradicts gerard’s nonsense claim that Nokia “made sure their components made in China complied with the same working hours and conditions as in Finland”. Working on the unspoken assumption that Finland doesn’t have the same Dickensian working conditions as in China.
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VL, so according to you and Voice, googling = research?
I saw the documentary about Nokia, can’t remember if it was ABC or SBC; I’m absolutely confident that the document makers did more real research than just one minute googling : )
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Lol, Voice, but I would not be so quick to step on his traps, it was pretty obvious he was baiting you, even called for you… 🙂
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Whereas I am 100% certain that Mike Daisey did more research than one minute’s googling.
I don’tbother to pick up everything gerard makes up. So perhaps next time he does it, it would be a better idea not to bait me. Whatever floats his boat.
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Mike Daisey has a point, Gez. And it was said that Steve Jobs was – unlike Bill Gates, no big philanthropist. But he was a truly amazing guy, flawed like everyone else, but amazing none-the-less. (He said typing on his MacBook Pro).
I’m intrigued by his partner – Steve Wozniak – who seems to have disappeared without trace. What might we learn of him ?
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Portentous. And coming from an achiever, a fillip.
Don’t give up or be browbeaten. A true job creator.
Thanks for finding that Emmjay. If you hadn’t, I don’t reckon I would have ever seen it.
Others may have already, but I hadn’t. It was good.
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It was a reminder for me, Jayell. When FM was being treated for the big C, that’s how one must see life – make it count like every day might be be the last. Because as Steve Jobs said – one day, it will be the last.
It also helped remind me that in reality we have very little to lose except untaken opportunities.
LikeLike
Dammit! Missed the 1,000th post mark ’cause the boss snuck in and pinched it! Oh well, privileges of rank and all that, I suppose… Anyway, I’ve just submitted for review, the item I was saving for that spot, so if you’re still there Emmjay, would you mind doing the honours for me? Thanks…
Will watch your ‘Steve Jobs’ post a little later; time for tea now…
🙂
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No, Asty, the Steve Jobs article doesn’t count because there’s nothing written. It’s just an amazing speech.
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