TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
For those of you who have been able to even click upon the title: Congratulations. You have taken the first step in a long journey of grief. For those who find themselves here by accident or who haven’t yet noticed: Welcome. Let me break it to you gently – Labor came second.
I hope this article will provide a place for people to mourn. So often others tire of our wailing when we feel we have not even yet begun to hit our stride. No-one will criticise you here for not getting over it and lightening the eff up.
Most of us have passed the denial stage of grief and entered into the Pain and Guilt stage, entailing the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase. Every news headline seems a harbinger of doom, or even evidence of its actual arrival. You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn’t do. “If only I’d made one more comment about Julie Bishop’s hair. Labor might have won the election.” Don’t berate yourself for this. It is all perfectly normal.
Voice said:
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Jayell said:
OK.
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Carisbrooke said:
In an effort to wash the taste of the election debacle away – and sluice my mouth*, I’m off to ‘do’ shopping today, as it’s holidays for the teaching fraternity, enabling daytime activity.
Firstly, I’m going to search for one of these: http://www.cybershack.com/news/palm-held-projector-acer
*To sluice, I’m gonna pig out here ..https://www.facebook.com/pages/Yum-Cha-Cuisine-Robina-%E5%BE%A1%E8%86%B3/131419450202243
And here.https://www.google.com.au/maps/preview/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x6b911cba3cd20be5:0xa326f8cfbf03401c!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttps://plus.google.com/112528865069044309780/photos?hl%3Den%26socfid%3Dweb:lu:kp:placepageimage%26socpid%3D1!5smax+brenner+robina+-+Google+Search&sa=X&ei=irFMUsn8JemaiAf_uID4BA&ved=0CJgBEKIqMAo
The pancakes with chocolate and a dark chocolate hot drink (reminiscent of Marseilles, for anyone who’s been there), are enough to last one for a month.
I’ll be thinking of youse all. Even the grumps.
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Lehan Ramsay said:
I cannot really understand why you scold them so much, Voice. They seem relatively intelligent.
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Voice said:
Hi Lehan. It was really quite warm today.
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atomou said:
Not in Box Hill North it wasn’t, Voice! Bastard of a day here! Cold, windy, wheelybin spinning day! Couldn’t stick my nose out of the door for fear it’d be ripped off!
But I had a couple of very nice emails and picked up my gorgeous little car!
Horror mitigated a little bit!
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Voice said:
Box Hill North. Source of the best Kourabiethes in Australia.
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atomou said:
It’s a strong, sweet wind that blows the best kourabiethes far and wide!
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Lehan Ramsay said:
Voice? You’re set to go.
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vivienne29 said:
Do read this http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbott-and-australias-declining-status-in-indonesia/ ” Tony Abbott must quickly recognise, writes Professor Krishna Sen, that Australia’s moral authority and status as a model for progressive democracy has waned in the eyes of most Indonesians. ……….” It is not a long read, no wasted words and it is not written by a Labor person Jules (just in case you think it might be).
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gerard oosterman said:
Thank god, it was you that put it up. Just imagine the furore if Gerard had done it. Thanks Vivienne, I can do with a break.
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Carisbrooke said:
Yes I read it. her opinion is certainly valid and will soon transcended by events.
It will be interesting to see what develops, although conjecture always precedes what actually happens Vivienne.
Personally, my wish is that it all works out for us and our government.
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Carisbrooke said:
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/10/01/abbot-respects-ri-sovereignty.html
He’s going well………………………………………………from the horse’s mouth.
Cheval clipity clop
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vivienne29 said:
From today’s Jakarta Globe: (from IA today)
Despite Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s push to strengthen ties with Indonesia during a meeting with business and government delegates on Tuesday morning, a press conference following the breakfast was restricted to the Australian media.
Local media, including the Jakarta Globe, were not allowed to attend the press briefing that saw Abbott and Australia’s foreign minister, Julie Bishop, speak with Australian media.
Umar Idris, the chairman of the Jakarta branch of the Alliance of Independent Journalists (AJI), said it was the first time he had heard of a case where local journalists had been excluded from a conference, and condemned the move.
“Australia has good press freedom and so they should practice that in Indonesia as well,” Umar told the Globe. “Tony Abbott’s visit is important for the Indonesian media, and journalists should be granted open, equal access.”
The move comes as the Australian government has enforced a media blackout where it will now only hold one press conference a week for Australian media on asylum-seeker issues.
Read the rest of the story on the Jakarta Globe website.
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atomou said:
Tony Boots: The Who, Where, What, When and How, Prime Minuscule!
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algernon1 said:
Thought he looked sycophantic myself.
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Carisbrooke said:
Thoroughly agree with you Vivienne, he’s doing a wonderful job.
Wier the invy of the worroldd now.
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atomou said:
Good link, Vivie. Thanks
The comments below it are also highly informative as well as humorous. Here’s a humorous one from Bighead 1883:
And the idiots that voted in this less than Dubya intel praise him no end on MSM,go figure.Mushrooms don`t require much and believe me that`s all they`ll get.
Sheesh, Mary Jo Fisher was more interesting.
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Carisbrooke said:
Well done Voix, for 67 comments.
However, atomou is still ahead ;)……..76 @ https://pigsarms.com.au/2013/09/17/on-the-perils-of-being-mcgowan-in-indi/ 😉 🙂
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vivienne29 said:
68 now.
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atomou said:
Well… soixante-neuf now (too naughty to say it in English!
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gerard oosterman said:
‘A Cheating system’ had 101 replies. Well done too, Gerard.
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gerard oosterman said:
Vivienne;
The reason why many statements are peculiar is that they all come from the same person. There is nothing like backing your own opinion with a heartily supportive response from yourself but under a different guise. (Pseudo.) Especially handy when attacking Gerard.
The peculiar responses from D.N.H.F (Den Nordiska Herre-Folket) so keenly used on The Drum and here, and as always also ONLY directed to me is…of course… also the same person.
.
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Voice said:
I’ve never noticed D-N-H-F do anything but agree with you, gerard.
Of COURSE he’s Sea Mendez. Sea Mendez can’t actually say that directly because it’s against convention, but he’s dropped so many broad hints so many times that it’s a wonder there’s anyone left in the whole universe who doesn’t know by now.
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sea mendez said:
I’m not to fussed about the convention. But I’m a bit of an extremist about not explaining jokes and subtlety. Have you ever seen me use an emoticon?
I have noticed that whenever I moan about sock-puppeting and the fine line between that and parody, D-N-H-F rushes in to agree with me.
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Carisbrooke said:
“Helvi August 5, 2012 at 9:12 am Ellis’s blog
The Drum article on Gore Vidal did not get many comments…
I read a couple of nasty ones by Sea Mendez, always going for the kill…a real meanie, that one.”
I could table hundreds of others
Is this what you mean by trolling gerad?
I think that it’s time you realised that sea mendez is a long time male blogger, who has tod you tht he uses DNFF and John Bull.
It is not Voice, and your continued insinuations 100s of them along with Helvi’s are counter productive.
Voice is Voice. Se mendez is himself.
Try some medication, please and stop this harassment.
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Lehan Ramsay said:
Good lord.
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Lehan Ramsay said:
Is that the times.
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gerard oosterman said:
Yes, it could be.
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Lehan Ramsay said:
Well except that that would be Lourde. Rupert’s quite the catholic you know. Perhaps people have forgotten about that. We all gotta bow to somebody, I suppose.
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Voice said:
I truly-ruly intended to try it here, Lehan, really. It’s just the timing didn’t seem right.
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Voice said:
As to the resurrection of the ALP of Chiefly and Whitlam, atomou : As you probably know, the title of the poem is “The Second Coming”.
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atomou said:
Absolutely aware of that Voice. Yeats’ words inspired me to use the word “resurrection,” which is a stage just before the exalted rise to Heaven, a place well protected from the likes of political parties. I’ll settle for hoping for a resurrection, if it were only possible.
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sea mendez said:
You’re all so cultivated with your highfalutin poems and French. I feel inadequate.
We forgot to mention Australia’s greatest Prime Minister John Curtin.
I can do without the central planning and government ownership stuff. But I wouldn’t mind a return to them possessing actual principals. And actually liking working people.
Don’t think I can support a return to actual income redistribution (although we have a lot of it thanks to Howard just to middle-class and rich recipients) but adequate safety nets would be good.
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atomou said:
SM, you can’t possess a principal. Well, not in theory anyway.
I was debating about whom to mention but then, the light came to mind so, to be pithy, I only mentioned the chief.
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Voice said:
Excuse my French, Sea Mendez.There’s a personal connection there, and its influence waxes and wanes in my life and that gets reflected online. Yes, point taken at your very first “attempt”.
Atomou’s a retired (although I believe he still tutors occasionally) teacher. Also a bit of a show-off.
Julian’s just a show-off.
Not really – it’s a friendly thing I think, and he has a brother who lives near Versailles.
Emmjay enjoys playing with words and so Franglais is a natural match for him. (OMG, if that was supposed to be actual French I’ll probably find myself banned. 🙂 )
I don’t actually know much about poetry. But every now and again something sticks in even my mind. Of course I had to google the lyrics to get them accurately. This little extract is everywhere – if you didn’t already know that you’ll start noticing it soon. I also have a bit of a feeling for language and this iconic verse is just shiveringly intense.
Alles klar? 🙂
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Voice said:
Es tut mir leid. I think had my nearly defunct German been better, I would have written Alles gut? rather than Alles klar? On the other hand I’m pretty sure about Es tut mir leid. A phrase I had to use so often (you can see why) it has stuck to this day.
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Voice said:
P.S. The consonsant sound in “fait accompli” is the t, not a d. It’s liaison.
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Voice said:
I should have said it’s liaison in French. Now that “fait accompli” has moved into the English language, it’s a t sound just because it’s a t sound.
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Big M said:
Wasn’t Alles Klar the German pederist in The League of Gentlemen, the English comedy, not the movie?
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Voice said:
A program that went completely under my radar, Big M.
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atomou said:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/no-cash-but-100-firm-gets-green-light-on-gas/story-fnaxx2sv-1226730306484
One hundred bucks will get you a licence to to go fracking the land for coal seam gas!
Oh, O’Farrell!
From The Australian:
THE NSW government extended for six years vast coal-seam gas exploration licences held by a $100 company despite being told it had little equity, had failed to lodge accounts on time and had almost no industry experience.
It can also be revealed NSW CSG operators are permitted to “self declare” their financial position, with some being granted massive licences without providing balance sheets, profit-and-loss statements, or even details of their corporate structure.
In June last year, the NSW government extended by six years three exploration licences held by Leichhardt Resources, a $100 company run by a Brisbane lawyer in his spare time. The licences cover more than 5500sq km.
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Big M said:
In a similar vein: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-01/berejiklian-accused-over-contract-for-former-colleague/4991342
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atomou said:
But they DO pay their taxes, don’t they, Big One? Well, don’t they? We have to pay our teachers, you know!
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Big M said:
…and our nurses, I hope!
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atomou said:
Yes, yes, our nurses! How the hell could I forget our nurses. One lives right here, most of the time!
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Big M said:
I have to go and perform some nursing in a couple of hours time.
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atomou said:
May the prick of the needle be with you, Big one!
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Voice said:
That will no doubt put politics into perspective, Big M.
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Carisbrooke said:
You might get me on your operating there Big.
I wonder what you would do then?
That would be an interesting short story.
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Carisbrooke said:
I can take all of this robust sarcasm. it’s great. And is what discussion should be.
However don’t try to shape my views – as you did on the dot, 🙂 Big! 🙂 I’ll go there and leave a very, very mild note of disapproval, so you can see what you tried to do.
I know that I am probably wasting my time, however in the interest of science, I’ll soldier on. Lost and lonely; the only pedigree in a filed of weeds 😉
Re: my explanation of the tax system: I decide to go for a blunt approach rather than be allegorical.
It was just about the economy. No one begrudges anyone anything. At least not on the right. It’s you (lot) who are always bitching that things aren’t good enough!
Sooooo, back to the economy. You can be sarcastic, rude, stick your tongue out and call politicians turds. BUT IT DOESN’T CHANGE THE SYSTEM, AS I SET IT OUT.
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Big M said:
Don’t worry, Cariz, I don’t do anything to anyone over five kilos, in fact, the two patients I cannulated last night weighed about a Kg each.
As for taxation, I agree, we need more tax to run the government. My problem is that there are a hell of a lot of ‘top outasights’ who pay farcall tax. Most of them run businesses that have a bigger budget than most small countries, yet, their owners are heard to skite about paying five to ten percent tax. Our ATO does nothing to chase down the buggers. If they did, you would be happily running your businesses, and we would all be happy working for the government!
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gerard oosterman said:
No regrets. Just rejoicing the return of the ALP next time around. The way things were over the last two weeks with Abbott will probably set the tone for the next three years. No easy task to upset neighbours with 260 million people or show the world we have an AG that ‘wipes the dance floor’ at a shock jock’s wedding; never mind trying to get a freebee on taxpayers generosity.
I agree, that the ALP has to reform their way on boat people issues. Let the Libs carry on their ever increasing crime against humanity. Their stance on cruelty is well recorded and short from shooting boat people, the race to stop boatpeople from taking those terrible journeys based on treating them as criminals when they do get here as warning to future refugees on boats, shows us to be still in a ‘white Australia’ time warp at worst or just ignorant of human nature at best. Would ruddy freckled UK citizens be shoved off to Papua if they ever arrived here on leaky boats escaping terror and wars?
Both Shorten and Albanese agreed that immigration is the back bone of Australia. Migration made what it is today. I don’t believe that Australians are as biased and xenophobic as we are made to believe. This phobia about refugees on boats has been exploited by both parties. It was a vote winner.
The ALP has 3 years to return sentiment towards boat-people to a much more compassionate, acceptable, and normal level. The issue is a non issue and the numbers are miniscule compared with boat people overrunning Europe or refugees fleeing into their neighbouring countries.
No one wants people to risk lives in rickety boats, but they do. That is a fact. To treat them on-shore quickly, humanely and with compassion is the only answer. We are a country within own continent and blessed with the lowest density population in the world. We are blessed with space and sunshine. So, don’t be stingy when a few thousand undertake that terrible risky journey. Welcome them!
The second issue is to remain strong on carbon pricing and tax those that pollute the most. If it impacts on the economy, remember ‘no pain no gain.’ The pain will be a lot less compared with an unliveable world. The idea that we can pollute with impunity and not pay a price is unrealistic, an Abbott kind of logic.
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Carisbrooke said:
“The ALP has 3 years to return sentiment towards boat-people to a much more compassionate, acceptable, and normal level. ”
Why don’t you just be honest…”If the ALP get back in they’ll open more Kamps”.
That’s what they’re famous for.
The Coalition have inherited them. It’s shameful really. However, The Labor party and it’s hangers on, seem to relish Kamps. Perhaps they should set up kamp advisory bureaus all across the globe.
I wonder if Kevin will ever have the guts to apologise.
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gerard oosterman said:
If the coalition is deemed more compassionate they could allow the refugees into the community quicker Carisbrooke. Would you agree that that concession is open to the Libs at any time? Where did I write about ALP camps? (it is written with a c not a k), or are you warming up towards trolling again Carisbrooke?
I am writing about a future ALP going forward to fundamentals.
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Carisbrooke said:
You’re famous for kamps. You had 6 years and you gave us kamps, kamps, kamps.
We don’t want any more arrivals. The Kamps are getting full.
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gerard oosterman said:
I have been about the only one still willing to give you yet another go and respond again. Not anymore, I was foolish.
Goodbye.
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Carisbrooke said:
It isn’t me that Trolls, unless you call disagreeing with you trolling?
The K is an acKnowledgement to Kevin, who started the Kamps. Well correction Keating started them, however Kevin resurrected them.
It’s artistic licence. “Something that’s frowned upon in here now.”
You have had the freedom to troll out hundreds of anti-Australian stories, with scant dissension, from the PA bloggers.
It was repetitive and boring.
Now you are trying to cleverly tar me with something that Algernon attempted to label me with.
I don’t tell you what to write. I just argue against it. And I’m probably the only writer who doesn’t use expletives – that’s not to say that I haven’t on occasion.
Please do not write to me gerard. You keep on with the same things – although some of your stories have been good. never got any attention from outsiders, of course. Even when Voice , atomou and I stayed away for several months
You can’t even acknowledge that you support the party that started the Kamps
Thank god we have someone in Tony Abbott, who can communicate with the Indonesian PM. Can you just imagine Albo, or Shorten over there, licking their arses? “”(Anyone care to comment on that.)”” 10 points if you can come up with a sentence without swearing.
But don’t worry about me, as far as conversation goes…There are others here to criticise and bully me into liking their points of view. I’ll be right.
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algernon1 said:
Many here disagree with you regarding the trolling Jules
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Carisbrooke said:
Many is a bit like most, Algernon. A nebulous crap out.
I’m direct. That’s all.
If I canvas the “many”, what will I find?
On one side, You, Vivienne, Helvi and her husband, plus Big, dutifully being a party faithful.
On the other side, Voice, atomou, Asty and possibly sea mendez….and me of course. I could take ‘me’ off ‘my’ list, however you would then have to take ‘yourself’ off ‘your’ list
Lehan, an undecided.
So don’t troll me Algernon. I’m not one of your myriad turds, Adolphs or this: “My guess is that the stinking rodent will be the next GG. I also think there will be a recession next year and windbag won’t have a clue what to do.”….Typical of your comments???
I’m prepared to draw a line now.
So let’s see who can be the most civil, yet maintain the allegiance to our vastly different aspirations.
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algernon1 said:
I’m not trolling you Jules, in fact I have little interest in any of your carry on.
My interest is in this site going forward the people in it and those who are prepared to make a contribution, something you are clearly unwilling to do.
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Carisbrooke said:
Still at it eh.
I offered you an olive branch and you try and bully me, with your silly suggestion, that your writing is more valuable than mine.
You’re a strange fellow to be sure. Still maybe it’s for the best. At least I know where I stand with you and your “most” people.
Maybe when you write disparaging rubbish, you don’t expect to be called for it?
Anyway, I couldn’t care a less. I tried. just go back to your nebulous musings. And pop in to share some more gems, like, “Nazi mushrooms”. That’s sure to raise the roof, in a lunatic asylum.
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Voice said:
So Europe is overrun with boat people, gerard. You make the ones landing in Europe sound like vermin. Whereas Australia has been fortunate enough to get backbone building boat people. Perhaps some European ships could stand off the coast of Indonesia and poach some of the backbone builders to help out with the overrunners.
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gerard oosterman said:
No, I meant they are coping with a lot more. The words of ‘vermin’ are used and owned by you not me.
It did not last long did it? Try and stay the calmer course. Don’t put your own interpretation on some ones else’s words. Overrun means many more people and not vermin.What do you mean by the phrase of ‘backbone building boat people’.
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Voice said:
The words overrun and coping are mutually exclusive. Perhaps its an English language problem rather than the Freudian slip it sounded. Who knows? The backbone reference – Again, who knows? It’s yours.
Good to hear you have decided to rejoice the future anyway.
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gerard oosterman said:
No, you are connecting ‘overrun with vermin’. Don’t get away with subterfuge. The same as Carisbrooke is attempting to slime away from the German word Kamp(F) knowing full well it also relates to the millions that were sent through German Kamp (f) and into the gas chambers. Carisbrooke and you Voice (and your symbiotic partner Sea mendez) are hounding me now in the same manner as both of you have been doing on the Drum and Ellis’s blog for which you and your multitude of pseudos have been banned time and time again. Both you Voice and Carisbrooke are clearly relishing a kind of revengeful and bullying atmosphere whereby discussing issues are secondary to inflicting personal insults and discomfort. Why? Is it private school etiquette?
Isn’t it a bit coincidental that both of you ( Voice and Sea mendez) keep repeating the same childish D.N.H.F.I pseudo relating to us, trying to unhinge us on Emmjays Pig’s Arms the same as you are trying forever to achieve on the ABC Drum and Bob Ellis’ blog? Many of your, (including Sea Mendez) responses to me were deleted by the ABC’s moderator.
Most of you would know that my stance on boat people is one of compassion and tolerance and I would never relate refugees to ‘vermin’. Why deliberately link ‘Vermin’ to my response in sympathy to boat people, except to relish the hurt and annoyances. It is pure bullying.
Also, I have no problem with English.
I thought Emmjay was clearly despairing the turn this blog has taken. So do I.
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Voice said:
Overrun is a very negative word, and a word that often IS connected with vermin. Look – I have no way to know what you know and what you don’t. You arrived here as a child, had at least a year of school here and have lived here for nearly fifty years so it’s not unreasonable to assume you knew that.
If you didn’t – don’t take MY word for it. Look it up.
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gerard oosterman said:
Again, the same belittling language. Why Voice?
I looked it up, not in my dictionary. Perhaps you have a special dictionary?
In the context of my response and you knowing my opinion about refugees and you trying to link it to ‘vermin’ was just baiting, nothing more.
Of course in a different context overrun could be linked to vermin but it was only you Voice trying to make capital out of it.
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sea mendez said:
Okay so lets all just calm down. From my perspective D-N-H-F is always trying to make a valid point. While we’re talking about German can I introduce their folk hero Til Eulenspeigel? I’m not going into it detail. One may check it out on wikipedia. It captivated me when I did high school German. That’s D-N-H-F (and John Bull and Southern Cross Tattoo) in a nutshell.
Off course it doesn’t work. When someone religious comes to my door and tries to convert me I jump in and try to convert them to Catholicism (lapsed but catechism was good for something). When someone comes to my door trying to sell me cable I try to sell them my car. They never get it. No one ever gets it. You hold the mirror up but people can’t see themselves.
I suspect I can’t see myself.
I suspect you can’t see yourself, gerard. Every charge you lay here I would lay back on you. That is how I see you. This is not a dig. This is my true opinion expressed calmly. My principal beef with you is that (I perceive) you avoid discussion and resort to insult. My half decade experience of you is that you will make an claim on flimsy evidence and then ignore my contrary evidence (evidence mind, not counterpoint) and then insult me. I believe Australia needs to increase its taxes. Did you know that? Did you know I’ve said it repeatedly on The Drum . I have been a persistent advocate of carbon pricing there too since may first day.
That article you did singling Atomou out. Come on dude! Lets all just calm down and admit we’re all jerks at times. Maybe then we’ll pull back a little.
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gerard oosterman said:
But Sea mendez. When the barney on Atomou and Voice was running you were not even here on the P.A. Why all of a sudden your interest in this? If you are not Voice than I am not Gerard. It’s the word ‘dude’ that is the give away.
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sea mendez said:
Sorry I want to add that I expressed the opinion that D-N-H-F went too far at The Dump. Initially I felt his incursion was warranted because he was making a point and then offering a rejected comment. But then he got carried away with his sense of his own brilliance.
He did wrong. I did wrong. Its not that hard.
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sea mendez said:
As I explained when I first posted here I found this place accident when researching your conspiracy theory. I became obsessed and read The Dump and the other thing in their entirety. I lurked.
A couple of days before my first post at the other thing I saw your hit piece on Atomou in regards to Rolf Harris. It was taken down subsequently. That’s what I’m referring to. Even though I know a bit about the barney too.
Let that one go, gerard. It’s not doing you any good. I’m not even going to taunt you about it anymore. I don’t think its funny anymore. Its hurting you.
I saw an FBI agent interviewed about Nigerian fraud victims. They keep sending money when the FBI proves to them they’ve been scammed. It seems they can’t let go of the closely held idea. They can’t admit they were so wrong and should have seen the obvious warnings. That’s me playing pop-psychologist.
Lots of people use the word, Dude.
Lots of people find me offensive and/or dopey. A few people obsessively so. C’est l… say… such is life.
Lots of people find you offensive and/or dopey. A few people obsessively so. Get used to it.
Dude when you set out to provoke its going to happen to you. What’s with your latest article? I’m going to say something but don’t you dare respond! No I’m shutting the door! Can’t hear ya!
When you set out to provoke…
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Voice said:
I’m not even going to bother posting links that prove “overrun” is a word with negative connotations and often associated with vermin, gerard. I just assume everyone else knows it. I might if someone else asks me to. Perhaps you just chose the wrong word. I have no intention to nail you on a poor choice of word. It’s a blog, not a legal document.
I just can’t be bothered with your efforts to look like the beleaguered victim of a mean conspiracy. It doesn’t do you any credit.
The gist of my original comment is that you sound very negative about refugees going to Europe, and very positive about refugees going to Australia. If you want to nail me on something, I’d go for sarcasm. My comment about bring the good refugees from Australia and delivering them to Europe to help with the bad refugees was sarcastic. It was intended to highlight the absurdity of the difference in the way you talk about refugees in both zones, and have done over at least several years.
Why DO you do that by the way? Talk about refugees in Europe and in Australia so differently I mean? It can’t be mere ignorance – your absurdly rosy view of the treatment of refugees in Europe has been comprehensively debunked countless times.
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vivienne29 said:
I think it is to do with numbers and perspective.
I would like to say that I find a lot of Voice’s comments here to be sort of ‘peculiar’. Neither interesting nor informative. Obscure perhaps. I like to read stuff which inspires further thought. In this thread both Voice and Sea Mendez have added nothing much of value. Could we perhaps have something of substance and no more using words which can be interpreted in too many ways.
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Voice said:
Fair enough Vivienne. None of us can be all things to all people, or please everyone. To be frank I sometimes find your comments mindbogglingly blunt. But I don’t see why any of this needs to be a point of ongoing contention between us. On my side anyway I’m comfortable with my style and intend to stick with it, and I get much the same feeling about yourself. My style isn’t intended to annoy you and if it ever does so I apologise in advance, but I’m not going to change it so ultimately if you choose to be annoyed anyway – tough. I fully expect that to be your attitude towards changing your own style.
As for content – I’ll include as much or as little as I please, possibly sometimes more than is obvious at first glance (the style thing again) and fully expect you to do the same.
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atomou said:
Vivie, no!
Please indulge my ponderousness for a moment:
Imagine a huge white canvas. As tall as you like and as long as you like. Now imagine painting iny, needlehead sized dots all over it, as close as you can to each other. You now have a bzillion, bzillion number of dots drawn upon it.
Move back and go to the farthest corner of it. One of those dots is this planet. Earth. How significant do you think it is, in the total scheme of things?
Now zero in on that dot -remembering its place in the Universe- and place another 7 billion plus dots upon that one. One of those dots is you, another me, another Voice, yet another Sea M and yet another the Pope. How significant do you think each of us is?
Continue with the zeroing in and open up one of those dots. Now paint another, say bzillion dots upon this one. These are the blogs and websites and other media available for people to write on. Zero in on one of those, the one that says Pig’s Arms. How significant do you think it is, in the larger scheme of things? The scheme that includes the original canvas?
Open it up and paint as many dots as you think would represent the articles written on this blog. How significant do you think it is, in the larger scheme of things? The scheme that includes the original canvas?
Again, zero in on the one that has your name on it. Or mine, or Voice’s or SM and paint as many dots on that one as you think these people have written articles or posts, here and elsewhere. How significant do you think each of these dots is, in the larger scheme of all the dots you’ve painted so far -of stars and planets and people and pieces of writing?
There are two views on this, both equally valid: Totally insignificant and vitally significant, both views relating to the self worth of the person having that view.
Therefore, either, none of us is and none of our words are significant, in the larger scheme of things or every one of us and every word here is significant.
How significant is entirely another question that requires a mind -or hand- of steel to determine, steel being the dictator’s metal of choice.
Who adds value to this blog and who doesn’t is determined by each of us and the most each of us can do is either read the posts or forego it.
We can, of course, analyse it, criticise it, or respond to it any way we want and, in the larger scheme of things, the things that include all the other dots, it will be as significant as the post we are responding to.
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vivienne29 said:
Of course Voice and Ato – you’re both right. And I’ve added my bit. Word use – overrun, vermin, Kamp etc – they were what got me to write what I just did. I am rather blunt but I try to make sense. I still think some of the comments are obscure. But I admire the pictures that Ato can paint with his words. I don’t get that with you Voice. Sorry. C’est la vie and all that.
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atomou said:
“Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all.” Aristotle.
I mourn!
I maintain the rage!
I mourn not for the electoral loss of the ALP but for what the ALP did to itself. Not only in engaging in these gory and brutal internecine wars but in the abandonment of the values which had brought it into political prominence in the first place.
I mourn the snuffing out of the light on the hill.
This was not the ALP of virtue but of arse licking. Of humiliating acquiescence, of slavish obedience to the interests of the enemy. Of obedience only to the dictates of hollow power, of pursuing self aggrandizement at all costs, of enacting laws or rejecting them according to the personal beliefs of its (always temporary) leader and not according to those of the electorate. Of its utter detachment from the everyday life.
I mourn the loss of innocence.
It is a mourning whose deep sorrow began one cold, rainy night in June, three years ago.
I look forward with dim hope to the resurrection of the ALP of Chiefly and Whitlam.
“Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all.” Aristotle.
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Carisbrooke said:
Something good may come out of the ashes, atomou.
Us fascist conservatives, need an effective opposition. Other wise we might do silly things – like balancing the budget and creating jobs.
Those feelings come from the tummy, not the heart, BTW.
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Big M said:
I suppose you would disagree with the IMF: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/hey-big-spender-howard-the-king-of-the-loose-purse-strings-20130110-2cj32.html
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atomou said:
Again, I repeat, for your elucidation, Cazo, Aristotle’s words. (He was a brilliant philosopher, you know)
Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all.
In other words, Cazo. there’s no point in balancing ledgers if the heart of a society is abandoned. And no, the mantra that “there’s no society without an economy” is a mantra shat out by the kleptocrats, through the bums of those who call themselves “Conservatives,” which, to my reading of them is a euphemism for “it all belongs to me!”
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Carisbrooke said:
Ha ha, I believe in being part of a democracy. I also understand my role.
I’m responsible for earning the money for the building and maintaining of all public jobs, servicing and infrastructure. I don’t have any illusions about that.
Without my tax, there will not be any hospitals, roads, nurses, fire fighting-services, navies, armies, libraries, coast guards, teachers, headmasters, education departments, universities, academics, climate scientists, welfare payments, politician’s flights, pensions, disabled care. ect ect . Plus of course all of the tax that those people pay, comes from my tax. I pay the gross amount then the tax that is deducted from the salaries, is just moved across to another section of the ATO.
An example: If you, or my daughter’s (she is a high schoolteacher), gross salary, before deductions, is $90,000. That comes from the taxpayer that’s ‘not’ in the public service – obviously. We also pay the superannuation for you (and my daughter).
It’s so easy to sneer at the job providers and taxpayers, all the while, complaining about how to spend it.
I don’t mind by the way, being a taxpayer all my life, I’m happy to reap the benefits and rewards of my hard work.
However, just realise that the more we earn the more we can pay (including local taxes, rates, levies ect). The more we can pay, the better facilities that we can provide.We love doing this, that’s why we need a strong economy, to give you the latitude to vent your spleen at us. And tell us that the economy doesn’t matter. That maybe, you don’t even need us/me.
Well, I suppose that you could live off your vegie garden? But then, how would you pay your mortgage? (I don’t want to know whether you have one or not. That’s personal, and this is supposed to be an ‘extended metaphor’, about a country-as-a-community.)
Good taxpayers like me give your ‘ heart’ a chance atomou.Just love me back…
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atomou said:
And not a word about Wall St, Fleet St, the Libor corruption (London Interbank Offered Rate), tax havens, the huge bribing industry, the huger military machine, the huger still, banking industry, the even huger mining industry, the huger and huger oil industry, the even huger and huger and huger retail food industry… all of which eat away at the measly taxes that you deign (or feign) to pay, Cazo!
I have no problem in loving you, Cazo, just as I have no problem at all loving the innocent sheep led to the slaughter with a handful of grass in front of it.
The word “economy” has been hijacked Cazo a very long time ago. It no longer means “the law of the house” ie, the whole house, including its heart, its sense of charity, of compassion, of welcoming, of holding hands.
It has been hijacked by the interests I’ve mentioned above and it now means, the wellbeing of those interests and those interests alone, with a few crumbs thrown in to the hoi polloi to keep them sweating at the wheel, praying in the church and cooking slop in the kitchen. Have you heard of the German phrase, Kinder, Küche, Kirche? (Children, Kitchen, Church).
And through our lofty politicians, we are given the spin that these interests are so benevolent that a trickle down effect takes place from their bums. That, the richer they become, the richer we become.
Myths have a sense of virtue behind their telling. Spin has only evil.
I’ve not trouble loving the innocent at all!
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Carisbrooke said:
I appreciate what you are trying to say. And of course it’s true that human nature has led to some of us acquiring more than we need ($$$$$).
I’m not in that category, having lost around $750,000, in 2010, due to playing in those nasty financial games. I’m over it now though and don’t blame anyone. Indeed, how could I?
I watched a programme about The Inca civilisation the other day. They were carrying on the same way, within their society, of course The Spanish came along and were worse.
We’ve just witnessed a bloodbath in Kenya. We’re not far removed form savages, when the guard slips.
But not here. There are not the destitute here that there was 50 yeras ago.
the reason? Capitalism. it just needs universal laws. I’ve written in The Drum on this often. Until we have a world democracy, laws can’t be enforced. there is always a scam somehow.
Don’t fret that Paul McCartney, J. Rowling, Chubby Packer, Richard Branson and Andrew Forrest, are zillionaires – the money wasn’t headed our way anyways.
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Voice said:
In those paragraphs about your role you sound like a perfectly trained husband, Caz.
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atomou said:
Capitalism, Cazo, old son, is like alcohol and lechery and, to help you understand it (Capitalism) let me remind you of what the old bard said about it through the mouth of the Porter in MacBeth:
Porter:
…drink, sir, is a great provoker of three things…
nose-painting, sleep, and urine.
Lechery, sir, it provokes, and unprovokes;
it provokes the desire, but it takes
away the performance: therefore, much drink
may be said to be an equivocator with lechery:
it makes him, and it mars him; it sets
him on, and it takes him off; it persuades him,
and disheartens him; makes him stand to, and
not stand to; in conclusion, equivocates him
in a sleep, and, giving him the lie, leaves him.
Macbeth, 2 iii
Remember this hilariously juicy bit? It’s one of those roles which, even though tiny, actors would happily give their right arm to play. Full of comedic possibilities. Stage business and histrionics. Utterly gorgeous! The only rest from the totally horrendous series of events.
That’s Shakespeare talking about capitalism and its brutal characteristics.
Of course, you are not talking of Capitalism but of bartering: a few coins for a pair of sandals or a loaf of bread. Different thing altogether!
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Carisbrooke said:
Whatever!!
70 posts 😉
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atomou said:
Whaaaaat?
I give you one of the most brilliant gems of the English Literature (with a capital L!) and you reply with, “Whatever?”
Bloody hell Cazo! That’s all I can say, bloody, bloody hell!
Bloody hell!
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Carisbrooke said:
Apologies, it deserved more. I guess that I have got sidetracked in this particular blog 😉
Gold Coast version….I pasted this in by the way,. I’m not going to claim credit; dubious credit though it be!
Drinking turns your nose red, it puts you to sleep, and it makes you urinate. Lust it turns on but also turns off. What I mean is, drinking stimulates desire but hinders performance. Therefore, too much drink is like a con artist when it comes to your sex drive. It sets you up for a fall. It gets you up but it keeps you from getting off. It persuades you and discourages you. It gives you an erection but doesn’t let you keep it, if you see what I’m saying. It makes you dream about erotic experiences, but then it leaves you asleep and needing to pee.
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Carisbrooke said:
Do you know, in all the years that you have blogged, here – and in The Drum, you are the only writer/pseud/person, who has managed to keep your political leaning to yourself.
I admire you for that, since you’ve never even given it away in our private correspondence. I wear my heart on my sleeve, of course. However I never wail. Wailing is a left wing trait.
Keep up the good work – and that sense of reason that you have/display.
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vivienne29 said:
Wailing only amongst certain ethnic groups.
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Carisbrooke said:
I left a post for you underneath the risotto request, Viv. . . .Obviously you haven’t activated your, “notify me of follow up comments box”.
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vivienne29 said:
I’m not supposed to be talking to you! But – I saw it. I don’t have any kind of pay TV. I just want that risotto recipe. Been waiting for about 18 months for it. I’ve asked about six times and I never get a response let alone the recipe.
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Carisbrooke said:
It’s coming. I’m also working on an easy tempura recipe.
When John, came to work at The restaurant in Surfers, he introduced crocodile tempura. We served it with a dipping sauce.
He was way ahead of his time, No wonder he’s done so well.
It’s a shame that you don’t have Foxtel You could have learned so much 😉
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vivienne29 said:
I’ll stick to talking about food. I don’t need a tempura recipe because I already have an easy one but thanks anyway. Crocodile ! – had it once and didn’t think much of it. Also hubby will not eat meat from a carnivore. I’ve some beeyootiful Coffin Bay oysters and freshly filleted John Dory for dinner. Will just dust, dredge or whatever word you prefer, the fish and quickly pan fry.
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vivienne29 said:
When it comes where are you going to put it? May I suggest you pop it into the Dot. The recipe that is.
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Carisbrooke said:
You do realise that, for some, wailing is a vocation.
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vivienne29 said:
This ‘piece’ is far more applicable to the Liberal/Nationals following their defeat in 2007 and again in 2010. They never got over it. Labor people always just get on with it.
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